One-*** efficacy questions

[RobinBHM]

f reasons why people aged 80 odd die

It is not just people "80 odd"

In Jan people of all ages were hospitalised
We now have a million people with long Covid.

 

[AlanY]

I wear a mask when shopping because I got fed up with snarky remarks from members of the public who clearly did not have two brain cells to rub together (you know the sort: those that whine about people not wearing a mask whilst theirs is down around their chin, or removed so they could smoke a cigarette: all those lovely smoke particles, each a potential carrier of Death, being released into a public area by somebody called 'Shane' whose pregnant girlfriend is loudly protesting that wearing a facemask makes it 'hard to eat yer f***ing chips!').
At least, that is how my mask wearing started. As time passed, it became clear that some people were genuinely frightened at the thought of catching Covid and it was to not add to their concerns that I consistently wore my mask when shopping. I do not believe that masks make an iota of difference (just my opinion and I do not care about the evidence one way or the other: I do not trust scientists any more than I trust politicians). That being said, my lovely wife is a very handy seamstress (not in the Terry Pratchett sense, I should add) and she decided to buy in a load of material and make facemasks to sell from a little kiosk at the front of our drive, with every penny being donated to Cancer Research UK. I was ordered to make the kiosk. Since September 2020, she has donated very close to £1000 so I say 'YAYY!' to facemasks.

 

[TRITON]

Odd Surgeons wear a mask when carrying out an operation isnt it ?. Given some here are following an illogical line that they do nothing.
There are probably many factors at work, and do we/studies know for sure that anyone didnt touch their face, or readjust their mask or something along those lines, or even picked up the virus on their hands and later managed to become infected that way. I think it too poor an argument to rely on anyone saying the mask alone is or is not to blame when an individual becomes infected.

I expect somewhere down the line some will need an operation of some sort, a relacement knew or hip. Would those claiming that masks do nothing, insist their surgeon not wear a mask during that operation ?.

 

[AlanY]

Odd Surgeons wear a mask when carrying out an operation isnt it ?...

Not really. True surgical masks are generally made from non-woven fabric and have an absorbent layer on the inside. These are a far cry from the woven fabric (albeit two layer) masks I was thinking of and which are very commonly seen in use in public areas. Also, surgeons only use surgical masks once and they are binned. No real way to enforce such a hygiene regime on the general public who, even if they were to use a first rate surgical mask, would contaminate the mask / themselves / anything they then touch a little bit more every time they remove the mask to eat a chip or smoke a cigarette (or whenever). I much prefer to use the wash hands / use sanitiser /stay the hell away from strangers approach although, as I said above, I am happy to wear a mask in shops to keep folk happy.

 

[Mark Hancock]

stay the hell away from strangers approach although, as I said above, I am happy to wear a mask in shops to keep folk happy.

Why are you staying away from approaching strangers?
Why wear a mask to make others happy?

 

[RobinBHM]

We ought to be able to agree it is particularly nasty for over 65's. It is nastier again the older you get, the more comorbidities you have etc. None of this is new

It is also nasty for people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s

Look at the people in India
Look at hospitalisation here in Jan.

Long Covid now affects a million people.

 

[Rorschach]

Odd Surgeons wear a mask when carrying out an operation isnt it ?. Given some here are following an illogical line that they do nothing.
There are probably many factors at work, and do we/studies know for sure that anyone didnt touch their face, or readjust their mask or something along those lines, or even picked up the virus on their hands and later managed to become infected that way. I think it too poor an argument to rely on anyone saying the mask alone is or is not to blame when an individual becomes infected.

I expect somewhere down the line some will need an operation of some sort, a relacement knew or hip. Would those claiming that masks do nothing, insist their surgeon not wear a mask during that operation ?.

Actually not all surgeons wear them and their efficacy is disputed in the field. All surgeons though will acknowledge they are nothing to do viral transmission.

 

[Chris152]

Don't feed it folks, starve it of oxygen.

 

[Selwyn]

If masks are effective then surely no need to social distance?

 

[Selwyn]

Selwyn you have dishonestly stated as fact that India reached its peak on the 6th May.

You cannot state it as fact because numerous news agencies and scientists are giving different views.

You are welcome to say "in my opinion......"

Dr Giridhara R Babu, professor of epidemiology at the Public Health Foudnation of India, says the country has passed the peak of the current wave of infection, but official case numbers might not be accurate.

India is still recording around 260,000 new cases a day - down from above 400,000 10 days ago.

Dr Babu tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Although the peak is in the past, we might have missed some infections because of poor testing."

He says scientists had been expecting between 500,000 and 700,000 cases a day during the peak.



So apparently this makes me dishonest?

 

[Selwyn]

Odd Surgeons wear a mask when carrying out an operation isnt it ?. Given some here are following an illogical line that they do nothing.
There are probably many factors at work, and do we/studies know for sure that anyone didnt touch their face, or readjust their mask or something along those lines, or even picked up the virus on their hands and later managed to become infected that way. I think it too poor an argument to rely on anyone saying the mask alone is or is not to blame when an individual becomes infected.

I expect somewhere down the line some will need an operation of some sort, a relacement knew or hip. Would those claiming that masks do nothing, insist their surgeon not wear a mask during that operation ?.

I wouldn't expect a surgeon who is healthy to need to wear a mask, no. If he had a virus he would be ill and probably not doing the operation.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I wouldn't expect a surgeon who is healthy to need to wear a mask, no. If he had a virus he would be ill and probably not doing the operation.

Let's not forget that surgeons are human beings and as such are fallible. Many doctors used to smoke tobacco and drink alcohol to excess - some still do.

I think that the risk to the HCP goes up significantly if there is an AGP (aerosol-generating-procedure). If I thought that I might liberate any kind of body fluids from my patient/victim - in aerosol form or otherwise - I'd want my mask (and - every bit as important - glasses) on!

This is an interesting article, from an ostensibly reputable source:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

 

[D_W]

If masks are effective then surely no need to social distance?

This is sort of like saying that seat belts don't improve safety if you have a good bumper, because one negates the need for the other.

 

[TominDales]

I see they're thinking of bringing forward second jabs for those in areas with rapidly increasing cases of the Indian variant, and discussing regional measures again. It's clearly got the boffs in white coats worried. About 500 to 1300 in a week (and that data's a week or two out of date), just as everyone thinks things are heading back to normal. Can't help but feel we've seen this before.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57109660
ps Not remotely interested in hearing how it's not a serious disease, npis don't work, doesn't matter coz it's already peaked, i think i'm young and ok, i don't want the vaccine, failings of 'msm' etc

Here is a good article from BBC explaining the dilemma facing Sage last week and why it gave such confusing messages such as the 'worse than January flare up' etc, and then recommended we continue to open up.
There is such uncertainty that a whole range of outcomes is possible, but its also quite likely that R is overestimated due to the number of people arriving with the Indian strain of covid. The enclosed graph highlights a world of difference between a variant that is 20% more transmissible and one that is 50% more.
Sage view is continue to monitor developments. The view is if transmission really is a lot higher, we will find out quickly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57150871

 

[Rorschach]

Let's not forget that surgeons are human beings and as such are fallible. Many doctors used to smoke tobacco and drink alcohol to excess - some still do.

I think that the risk to the HCP goes up significantly if there is an AGP (aerosol-generating-procedure). If I thought that I might liberate any kind of body fluids from my patient/victim - in aerosol form or otherwise - I'd want my mask (and - every bit as important - glasses) on!

This is an interesting article, from an ostensibly reputable source:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

Yes wearing masks for surgery is a very interesting topic and not as clear cut as you might think. Sadly it has been hijacked somewhat to suit the covid agenda.

 

[RobinBHM]

All surgeons though will acknowledge they are nothing to do viral transmission.

Which has nothing to do with mask wearing in connection to Covid.

 

[RobinBHM]

If masks are effective then surely no need to social distance?

All these excuses you come up with....just because you are embarrassed to wear a mask

Mask wearing is effective, the evidence proves it. Come on man up and admit you are wrong.....we are all getting bored of your endless hogwash.

 

[Rorschach]

Which has nothing to do with mask wearing in connection to Covid.

So first you say masks are not to stop spread, now you say they are not to stop viral transmission. Have you become an anti masker? So good to have you on the team!

 

[Selwyn]

[/QUOTE]

All these excuses you come up with....just because you are embarrassed to wear a mask

Mask wearing is effective, the evidence proves it. Come on man up and admit you are wrong.....we are all getting bored of your endless hogwash.
[/QUOTE]


I don't think this is the place for ad hominem attacks.

Come on if masks work, why social distance? There was a boxing event in Texas the other week, 72k people no masks. People like you are being played in this country. I expect you believe the Indian variant and now think it "risky" to go on holiday abroad

 

[Jonm]

I don't think this is the place for ad hominem attacks.

Come on if masks work, why social distance? There was a boxing event in Texas the other week, 72k people no masks. People like you are being played in this country. I expect you believe the Indian variant and now think it "risky" to go on holiday abroad

The main purpose of face masks as worn by the general public, indoors is to reduce the number and distance that respiratory droplets spread in the air from an infected person. Difficult to set up a randomised trial to prove this. Countries who seemed to have controlled the virus well generally have this as one of their policies. An exception to this is island nations who shut their borders before the virus got to them.

The type of masks worn by the general public will not stop transmission, the idea is that it reduces it. Hence the social distancing as well.

It is a low cost low risk intervention so the proof of effectiveness Is low. Most people have accepted it.

I do not understand why it is so controversial to you.