One-*** efficacy questions

[Selwyn]

Please provide the evidence that "people are claiming masks stop spread"

You won't because there isn't any....you made it up

So if there isn't any evidence that masks are stopping spread and you say there is any evidence. What do you think they are for?

(my own view is to force compliance and foster the idea there is a deadly virus about to kill everyone)

 

[RobinBHM]

Indian cases of Covid peaked on May 6th and now are slowly declining

I am terribly sorry Selwyn, but you are wrong.

From Indian Express.com 2 days ago:

"All indications from the coronavirus numbers in India in the last two weeks suggest that the second wave of infections may already have reached a peak, or will peak in the next few days. The end of the second wave may still be a long distance away, though"

From Reuters 5 days ago
"Experts still cannot say for sure when numbers will peak and concern is growing about the transmissibility of the variant that is driving infections in India and spreading worldwide."

From the Wire, 1 day ago
"'Peak Reached But Plateauing at High Level"

 

[Selwyn]

I am terribly sorry Selwyn, but you are wrong.

From Indian Express.com 2 days ago:

"All indications from the coronavirus numbers in India in the last two weeks suggest that the second wave of infections may already have reached a peak, or will peak in the next few days. The end of the second wave may still be a long distance away, though"

From Reuters 5 days ago
"Experts still cannot say for sure when numbers will peak and concern is growing about the transmissibility of the variant that is driving infections in India and spreading worldwide."

From the Wire, 1 day ago
"'Peak Reached But Plateauing at High Level"

I'm awfully sorry Robin but you are wrong

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...t-could-be-behind-us/articleshow/82660558.cms

 

[RobinBHM]

Except they don't really do this either

In your opinion.

The science says masks are effective.

"The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

 

[RobinBHM]

I'm awfully sorry Robin but you are wrong

Selwyn you have dishonestly stated as fact that India reached its peak on the 6th May.

You cannot state it as fact because numerous news agencies and scientists are giving different views.

You are welcome to say "in my opinion......"

 

[RobinBHM]

They won't fall off a cliff. They will slowly decline. Viral curves are well documented. Covid 19 is no different to other coronavirus

and non pharmaceutical interventions help flatten the curve and hasten the decline, as well as reduce the numbers of long Covid sufferers.

I'm pleased you agree lockdowns are effective.

 

[Selwyn]

In your opinion.

The science says masks are effective.

"The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic"
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

This link is 8 months old. I don't rate it at all.

This is the quality of the article " Confidence in masks grew in June with news about two hair stylists in Missouri who tested positive for COVID-19".

Its ridiculous. That is not "the science"

 

[RobinBHM]

Indian Variant on Friday was going to come and do us over

Nobody has said that.

 

[Selwyn]

and non pharmaceutical interventions help flatten the curve and hasten the decline, as well as reduce the numbers of long Covid sufferers.

I'm pleased you agree lockdowns are effective.

I don't think Lockdowns are effective. The other point is the corollary damage of them too. We had pandemic plans and we ignored them to follow Chinese style telly.

Some NPI's help for sure but they don't need to massively intrusive. The simple message that old people needed to be a lot more careful would have been very helpful for a start.

 

[Selwyn]

Selwyn you have dishonestly stated as fact that India reached its peak on the 6th May.

It says that date in the article however you don't like it

Yes there are numerous views and you are entitled to put yours and I do mine.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I hope that the current wave has peaked in India but while it will never be proven either way I believe the numbers they are reporting are made up.

This article explains the issue. It also confirms that lockdowns have been enforced.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...deaths-how-many-is-it-missing?t=1621271912410
I saw in a news briefing that I get through work today that the University of Washington have been looking at what the possible real number of deaths from COVID are. It’s summarised here.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1188
It’s no skin off my nose if people feel differently to my view or those in the articles posted ... and I’m not hiding in a bedroom Selwyn

 

[Selwyn]

I hope that the current wave has peaked in India but while it will never be proven either way I believe the numbers they are reporting are made up.

This article explains the issue. It also confirms that lockdowns have been enforced.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...deaths-how-many-is-it-missing?t=1621271912410
I saw in a news briefing that I get through work today that the University of Washington have been looking at what the possible real number of deaths from COVID are. It’s summarised here.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1188
It’s no skin off my nose if people feel differently to my view or those in the articles posted ... and I’m not hiding in a bedroom Selwyn

We can all agree its a nasty virus.

We ought to be able to agree it is particularly nasty for over 65's. It is nastier again the older you get, the more comorbidities you have etc. None of this is new.

As I've said before there are 1000 deaths a day with TB in India.

But even if there is an undercount of deaths (and I can well believe it is possible in India) we certainly also know that basing each pcr positive as a covid death when there can also be a myriad of reasons why people aged 80 odd die is just lacking perspective. We have never recorded deaths like this before as John Lee said

Like in the UK we know the average age of a covid death is higher than the average age of death anyway!!

We do have countries where we do have good data - Japan, America, Sweden, UK etc where we can trust the patterns of data to give us evidence of the virus' potentcy.

 

[RobinBHM]

This link is 8 months old. I don't rate it at all.

This is the quality of the article " Confidence in masks grew in June with news about two hair stylists in Missouri who tested positive for COVID-19".

Its ridiculous. That is not "the science"

The article is not built on "two hair stylists" that is just a tiny part of the article.....please stop being dishonest.
And it's a quality article from a respected source.


Here is another article:
"Compelling data now demonstrate that community mask wearing is an effective nonpharmacologic intervention to reduce the spread of this infection, especially as source control to prevent spread from infected persons, but also as protection to reduce wearers’ exposure to infection"

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536
And from the Centre for Disease Control:
"Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

I have quoted from respected, quality sources that masks are effective, so please retract all posts where you claim they are not, as they are misleading and unhelpful.

 

[Selwyn]

The article is not built on "two hair stylists" that is just a tiny part of the article.....please stop being dishonest.
And it's a quality article from a respected source.


Here is another article:
"Compelling data now demonstrate that community mask wearing is an effective nonpharmacologic intervention to reduce the spread of this infection, especially as source control to prevent spread from infected persons, but also as protection to reduce wearers’ exposure to infection"

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536
And from the Centre for Disease Control:
"Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

I have quoted from respected, quality sources that masks are effective, so please retract all posts where you claim they are not, as they are misleading and unhelpful.

However all the places where they are not wearing masks appear to demonstrate no real difference...

All this "evidence" of masks reducing infection hasn't seemed to make any odds to the rise in UK covid cases after masks came in. Covid will have another seasonal triggering later on in the year masks or no masks.

Masks are essentially a fig leaf, the report is also from October 2020 when we have had plenty of time to see seasonal covid triggers rise and fall with the use of useless masks. Its all about politics not science or a virus

 

[Rorschach]

Please provide the evidence that "people are claiming masks stop spread"

You won't because there isn't any....you made it up

Then why are we wearing them?

 

[RobinBHM]

entitled to put yours and I do mine

We finally got there, thank you for admitting your are posting your opinion not facts.

You are entitled to post your view, you are not entitled make posts where you state opinions as facts.....it is simply misleading and dishonest

 

[RobinBHM]

However all the places where they are not wearing masks appear to demonstrate no real difference

I have already posted the data that says masks are effective.

The words "appear to make no difference" are meaningless.

 

[RobinBHM]

All this "evidence" of masks reducing infection hasn't seemed to make any odds to the rise in UK covid cases after masks came in

Evidence says otherwise

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

[RobinBHM]

the report is also from October 2020

Wrong

The report I posted covers a range of periods.

 

[RobinBHM]

we certainly also know that basing each pcr positive as a covid death when there can also be a myriad of reasons why people aged 80 odd die is just lacking perspective

The reason for the 28 days after a positive test is well documented and explained here numerous times.