Phil Pascoe
Established Member
She is disabled. Her neighbour (the one between the two of us) went into her loft to check roof tank overflow - he told me, as he wondered if they done the same to mine.
No Fault Evictions
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Yes Labour are the party of cronyism and freebies, it has been questioned about the fact people have to pay tax on such gifts which it seems many / most have not but something else that has not been mentioned is security. Security vetting is an ongoing process and one of the things that comes up is anyone offering gifts which if that happens has to be reported because it is seen as a potential threat to security, you could then be seen as being in someones pocket or a threat to security. So the PM must have at least basic security clearance so why has he not been pulled up as in other places that security clearance is needed you would be in big trouble for taking those gifts ?
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I think Lady Mone will be sad that you've forgotten her so soon..
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
....not defined, just described. It's the attempts to define which confuses everybody on both sides.
It distracts attention from the simple fact that we are all socialists now, unless you have retired to a wilderness somewhere with no contacts and non of the benefits of modern society around you. Not "utopian socialism" - who needs it, whatever it is?
Have you got a personal definition of your own, or one you would recommend?
Would you want them working for you? Better off where they are. We've had 200+ years of industrial revolution supposedly reducing the need for work and its about time it was appreciated and taken seriously. Why has it not happened, why are we not all on the 3 day week as widely forecast in the past? Why do we still have poverty and homelessness?er. Amusing to watch but ultimately unhelpful.
You are much older than me, and maybe have developed more tolerance of the people who make little or no contribution to society, whether by laziness or lack of ability.
I agree. Who needs a label to say that so many of these issues need addressing?
We don't need an imposed "system" from left or right, we just need to use the system we've already got
Why the obsessive attention on Marie Buchan, who seems to have an unusual but fairly pragmatic approach to life and isn't doing anything illegal? It's a distraction from the real issues. Are she and her children really "parasites to be stamped on" as has been repeated on here many times?
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Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Quite right that Starmer is feeling the heat. Meanwhile, Robert Jenrick is probably quite happy that his “cash for favours”episode has been forgotten.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
And I agree that Starmer has been silly, naive, call it what you will, but I don't feel he's corrupt.
Not yet. I could change my mind...
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
It's not corruption so much as not having a moral compass / solid principles / judgment / political nous - he's new to it all and has only ever been an obedient civil servant. There's something a bit simple minded about him, and slightly unpleasant. Not clever enough to be seriously corrupt.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I agree. He’s adhered to the letter rather than the spirit of the rules IMO.
I just watched this on Amazon:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt320434...T2peUqpyY39dJvRiaQ_aem_RLWmVPUelP8jzRB4aeJV_g
I'd recommend it to my fellow left-wing pinkos, little wonder there are whole communities with little aspiration except to survive, try to feed their kids (not that they should have any, of course - they're terribly poor) and get back from the system whatever they can.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt320434...T2peUqpyY39dJvRiaQ_aem_RLWmVPUelP8jzRB4aeJV_g
I'd recommend it to my fellow left-wing pinkos, little wonder there are whole communities with little aspiration except to survive, try to feed their kids (not that they should have any, of course - they're terribly poor) and get back from the system whatever they can.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
He's Labour - he can't possibly be seriously corrupt.
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But Johnson and his friends are Capitalists, and look at the milking they did!
monster
Established Member
Those in power will milk whatever system they are in charge of. But a socialist system allows anyone in society to milk the system too, it encourages fecklessness.
monster
Established Member
Maybe you should vote Reform - looks like their mp’s are doing the opposite of ‘milking the system’!
https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1839280960996589707?s=46&t=xyCGyTYL938g8H1RdUPnxg
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Complete opposite of the truth. The whole point of brexit and everything about free-market neoliberalism, de-regulation etc is to allow businesses to "milk the system" with as little constraint as possible.
The childish ideology says that this will somehow work out the best for everybody. But it does not, never has, and socialism in its many forms exists precisely to correct this and fill the gaps, "for the many not the few".
Globalisation has made things more difficult for many by shipping jobs abroad. Automation adds to this by reducing the number of jobs required. These add up to a large class of people in insecure and low paid jobs, and/or dependant on benefits. It's not their own fecklessness which has taken their jobs and opportunities away and created mass unemployment.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I don't imagine a socialist utopia. This seems to be a figment of your own imagination.
Well there are certainly no examples of a capitalist utopia!
no comment!
Socialism in its many forms is generally the pragmatic reaction to the failures of "capitalism" (also in many forms).
Taking it from the top; the NHS is the pragmatic solution to the basic problem of healthcare in a free market, which is that those who need it most tend to be the least able to afford it... and so on through a long list of public services....
These things just have to be done - they won't do themselves and neither will "capitalism".
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ey_tony
Established Member
Flooding the jobs market with cheap low skilled migrant labour over the past two decades has done much to suppress the wages and fortunes of the poorest paid in our society, not mention the competition for infrastructure these migrants place on available services etc, again most affecting the poorest in our society.
They're the same people who were vilified and called racists, xenophobes etc by the pro-EU muppets because they dared to point out the issues with migration before the Brexit vote and which in turn led to the vote to leave the EU.
If the pro-EU lobby had actually acknowledged that there were issues and sought to remedy them instead of labelling anyone as racists who objected to or complained about the uncontrolled migration then the vote might have been different. But the pro-EU lobby were too stupid to recognise that there were problems and now we are where we are.
It's the poorest who always bear the brunt of such policies...you didn't get much of an issue with uncontrolled migration in the leafy suburbs of the Home Counties, it was in the poorest areas where people felt it most and still do today.
It's businesses and the better off who have reaped the rewards from uncontrolled migration. The better off benefitted most from cheap labour by paying less for their goods and businesses were quite happy to profit from cheap labour while the taxpayer picked up the tab for the infrastructure/social polices to accommodate and service these people so many businesses profited while they put very little back into the system.
I can't somehow see Starmer sorting the issues out but who knows?
Lons
Established Member
Starmer couldn't sort a box of mixed biscuits. Unless it was a freebie.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Well yes poor old Starmer hasn't heard of "the moral high-ground"! An open goal.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Re the part highlighted in red. I am not sure that medical need afflicts only poor people and would be interested to see the evidence for this assertion Jacob.
Whilst one might argue that more well off people can afford to pay for private healthcare, the existence of same goes against the principles of socialism. But equally importantly, the private sector typically excludes chronic conditions and is often poor at handling major trauma. Furthermore, people who are better off are also the ones who have likely paid the most into the NHS and so are surely equally entitled to use it.
However, these are side issues as illness, viruses, disease and accident are broadly non-discriminatory. Cancer affects both King and Pauper. Whilst for example the smokers and drinkers may increase their risk by their own actions, over indulgence is not discriminatory. Obesity afflicts the poor disproportionately but often has a significant element of choice to consume UPFs in quantity. UPFs are not cheaper.
I'm not being obtuse but as we all pay for the NHS we should all expect it to deliver. Perhaps we need a contract of what it can and can't do. We also need to get a grip of the obesity epidemic and should not be allowing manufacturers to destroy the nation's health selling salt and sugar laden chemical foods, as these lead to ill health.
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