New Diesel & Petrol Ban

[Noel]

View attachment 189316
The last 28 days above are quite typical. Alternation periods of wind and calm. Currently gas and imports make up the shortfalls.
View attachment 189317
Over the last year (as above).

So - The more renewable we generate the less expensive gas we need to buy.

We could generate more wind power but that gives us the problem of what to do with the excess when we get more than we need.

Lots of things are being tried. Pumping water up hill, compressing air, heating sand, batteries, hydrogen.

The problem is that the energy to store is immense and we need to be able to hold about 3 weeks worth. We used to store piles of coal but no more, we used to store gas in gasometers till the IRA intervened. I doubt we will arrive at a one size fits all solution, but we will find a solution. I am very confident of that as there is so much money to be made by those who back the right horse or horses.

I thought the gasometers were no longer needed once N Sea gas became more available? Granted one in the Warrington attacks was destroyed as far as I recall.

 

[Jake]

Would you consider it an authoritarian belief that led to a policy that no manufacturer will be permitted to sell a car with an internal combustion engine after a certain date?

No. It isn't.

 

[Thingybob]

I am just waiting, patience is a virtue. We have just switched off our very last coal fired electric generating plant that provided a really decent chunk of the UKs electrical needs. It’s gone, never to return. So, we now rely heavily on wind (c30% and increasing) and solar (4% and increasing) that wonderful natural resource that never ends…..apart from on days when it doesn’t blow and when the sun doesn’t shine! Of course, since we are running at over 85% of generating capacity, if the wind doesn’t blow it won’t be an issue to make up the extra generating capacity required….with???.??
Now what happens if the grid cannot provide the power demand? Well it’s not the case that the lights just dim a bit, the whole network shuts down and needs a restart. The lights go out, and that takes time.

Now granny and grandad who have converted or live in a house with either air or ground source, bought an electric car will fully understand why they are freezing to death and can’t get an emergency vehicle to take them to hospital, as they too are all now electric and can’t drive to hospital with a heart attack or having fallen as their car is also electric. I forgot, they won’t have the winter fuel allowance so they won’t have the heating on anyway!

Hence we don't need the coal fired plant so switch it off oaps won't be using as much electricity so it's not needed

 

[paulrbarnard]

Has no one seen the obvious cause and effect here? They have had to shut down the coal power station because pensioners can no longer afford to pay for electricity.

 

[NickDReed]

No. It isn't.

Does a policy mandated by a government that limits or removes the freedom of individuals not seem authoritarian?

 

[Spectric]

Authoritarian is where a governing body dictates to people that they must do this and you have no say in the matter. Removing peoples freedom to choose is taking the authoritarian stance even when the excuse given is that we know better than you and it is in your best interest.

 

[Jake]

Does a policy mandated by a government that limits or removes the freedom of individuals not seem authoritarian?

This is like debating 12 year old civics. The whole idea of an organised society imposes limits on freedom of individuals. That's impossible to avoid unless you think the cannibals and sadistic mass murderers previously used as an example should be completely free to do as they like. They are individuals too.

This has nothing at all to do with the political science definition of authoritarianism.

 

[Jake]

Authoritarian is where a governing body dictates to people that they must do this and you have no say in the matter. Removing peoples freedom to choose is taking the authoritarian stance even when the excuse given is that we know better than you and it is in your best interest.

Not you as well. It is not authoritarian for a democratically elected government to implement a policy for which it has a mandate even if that restricts peoples' freedom to choose. We know better than cannibals and mass murderers, right? We think we know better and that it is in their (and our) best interest not to be able to eat and sadistically kill some of the rest of us. They obviously disagree but there is a democratic consensus that they should not be able to exercise their freedom of choice.

 

[selectortone]

This is like debating 12 year old civics.

I remember asking my Mum why we had to have governments when I was a kid. She said "Go and get the encyclopedia and look up 'anarchy'."

 

[artie]

This is like debating 12 year old civics. The whole idea of an organised society imposes limits on freedom of individuals. That's impossible to avoid unless you think the cannibals and sadistic mass murderers previously used as an example should be completely free to do as they like. They are individuals too.

This has nothing at all to do with the political science definition of authoritarianism.

Bit of a stretch to equate mass murderers with granny popping down to Tesco in her Auris.

 

[Drifter2406]

Wait till they ban log burners, really will be at their mercy then, even more so than we are now.

 

[Jake]

Bit of a stretch to equate mass murderers with granny popping down to Tesco in her Auris.

Where do you draw the line Artie?

It's a logical device to expose the flaw in the reasoning.

 

[stuart little]

Looks like Fords are winding down there powertrain centre in the Uk with Germany taking EV and they already had everything else so a lot of well paid jobs going and also a big impact in the surrounding area.

If I was still a motorist, I couldn't care less about Frod, never ever bought one, or wanted to own a 'Dagenham Dustbin.' I got 'F-R-O-D' from rearranging the independent letters that used to be on car boots, pull them out of their retaining plastic bits & shuffle 'em! [hoping customers wouldn't notice ]

 

[stuart little]

Im not socialist but I think Tata should be stripped of Thier ownership of British steel making as it's a asset of national importance esp to the armed forces.

Re the ICE I believe that Europe is 2035 so that's when the big markets / players will be winding down ice production.

To me it's just virtual signaling and big brother government. Which I think we will see alot more of under Starmer....

Ice production is winding down, look how the glaciers are retreating. Italy & Switzerland are having to re-define their border at the Matterhorn!

 

[stuart little]

We're doomed, we're doomed I tell ya.

"Don't PANIC!"

 

[stuart little]

I am just waiting, patience is a virtue. We have just switched off our very last coal fired electric generating plant that provided a really decent chunk of the UKs electrical needs. It’s gone, never to return. So, we now rely heavily on wind (c30% and increasing) and solar (4% and increasing) that wonderful natural resource that never ends…..apart from on days when it doesn’t blow and when the sun doesn’t shine! Of course, since we are running at over 85% of generating capacity, if the wind doesn’t blow it won’t be an issue to make up the extra generating capacity required….with???.??
Now what happens if the grid cannot provide the power demand? Well it’s not the case that the lights just dim a bit, the whole network shuts down and needs a restart. The lights go out, and that takes time.

Now granny and grandad who have converted or live in a house with either air or ground source, bought an electric car will fully understand why they are freezing to death and can’t get an emergency vehicle to take them to hospital, as they too are all now electric and can’t drive to hospital with a heart attack or having fallen as their car is also electric. I forgot, they won’t have the winter fuel allowance so they won’t have the heating on anyway!

Amen!

 

[stuart little]

When I worked at Ford, steel sheet for bodywork pressings was bought in either from British Steel [Redcar & Port Talbot] or from Hoogovens in Holland. The British steel was cheaper but, unless you pressed it straight away, would 'kink' in the press, rather than bending smoothly. Then the car would end up looking like it was made out of corrugated iron. The Dutch steel never gave any problems. They had to buy some British steel, to keep the government onside; but they didn't like it.

So that's where Citroën got their corrugated steel from, for 2CV (early) bonnets & H-van panels!

 

[stuart little]

And once you have walked to the hospital it will be in utter chaos as all the IT systems will be down. Not to mention the inability to do anything in a hospital without power.

Better to freeze to death peacefully at home.

At the rate things are going, Armageddon will soon begin in the East - OH! It has already begun! - so we have to worry much longer!!

 

[NickDReed]

The whole idea of an organised society imposes limits on freedom of individuals. That's impossible to avoid unless you think the cannibals and sadistic mass murderers previously used as an example should be completely free to do as they like. They are individuals too.

Should it not be to provide a framework and laws that supports an individuals freedoms in balance with those of other individual members of the society? To suggest the whole idea of society is to impose limits on individuals seems to propose little in the way of checks and balances for such limits.

Each individual has their own subjective level of acceptance when it comes to limits on their freedoms, and what they will perceive as reasonable to give up in exchange for any benefit. No one is completely free to do what they like and I'm not sure that would be many peoples definition of liberty.

Not you as well. It is not authoritarian for a democratically elected government to implement a policy for which it has a mandate even if that restricts peoples' freedom to choose. We know better than cannibals and mass murderers, right? We think we know better and that it is in their (and our) best interest not to be able to eat and sadistically kill some of the rest of us. They obviously disagree but there is a democratic consensus that they should not be able to exercise their freedom of choice.

So is this a suggestion that assuming a government is democratically elected, by default it cannot be authoritarian, or implement authoritarian policies?

I'm not sure a decision to ban ICE vehicles was on any elected governments campaign policies, so it could be argued the population have not had a chance to come to a democratic consensus in order to decide whether this is a freedom they are willing to give up.

Many would argue the US Patriot Act that was introduced by a democratically elected government is authoritarian legislation. I'm not convinced the two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[Spectric]

I cannot recall any public debate regarding the target of zero emisions, the public have not been involved and these policies are being forced upon us regardless of our situations. The public would agree that achieving zero emisions is a good thing but not if our contribution is so insignifant when compared to others that we make little overall difference except to our living standards. This government got elected on having no policies except change, for many they just thought change meant for the better wheras in reality change can be positive or negative and maybe this labour win will be judged as the greatest political win by deceit ever and is why the political system has to be reformed so it represents all the people.