More hand saws for restoration? Advice please.

[Lons]

Definitely no "decorative" or otherwise nibs on these, actually I feel deprived now, might get the file out and remedy that :wink:

11 saws in total I've had for years meaning to refurbish and never got around to it so question is whether it's worth the effort to clean them up before listing on fleabay or just list as is, I'd post on here for sale but have no idea of value tbh. Missus suggests I start clearing out.

I know some if not most are rubbish but the blades of the named saws are remarkably flat and true though will need sharpening.

Opinions very gratefully received

Cheers
Bob

 

[Jacob]

Personally if I was buying one on ebay I'd prefer it in original condition untouched by yooman and.
That top one looks nice - I'd keep it.
I don't go in for restoration - just shake off the rust, sharpen and go. Linseed oil all over metal and wood keeps them good.

 

[Lons]

OK thanks Jacob

 

[AndyT]

I don't think you could refurbish an old saw, sell it on, and make a sensible return on the hours you'd put in. But most of those could be usable, given enough tlc, probably by someone wanting to use them. (I agree with you about the poor quality ones.)

The bottom saw in your 5th photo is nice - it's had a long hard life as someone's favourite but it's still good to the last inch! I have a similarly slender Disston which cuts really well.

 

[Lons]

Thanks Andy

Some of the saws including that one came from a friend who died 5 years ago aged 75, he was a woodworker but the saws had been handed down from his father also a professional woodworker of the old school. I believe a lot of his work was on ships.

My mate was ill for a good few years and unfortunately his tools suffered during that time, hence the rust.

 

[D_W]

The top backsaw and the first carpenter saw in the last group are salvageable. The top disston saw is attractive, but it's crosscut and the pitting is severe. As tempting as it may be, it should be sold to someone else, dismantled (to keep the handle and saw nuts) or given away.

The components from the second back saw would make good for a replating if the plate in it is straight (if the plate is not straight, don't chance it - bad fit could be caused by a twisted handle or knackered spine).

 

[Lons]

Thanks for that DW
I was a bit surprised at the Disston comment as it doesn't look anything like so bad in real life so maybe it's the photo.
Had a few minutes so gently had a go on the worst part with 1000g paper and it looks fine to me, pretty smooth really so I might try to refurbish that one to either keep or more likely sell on to someone who will appreciate it for what it is. I certainly couldn't bring myself to dismantle it for spare parts though.

I think I'll just lump the rest together as a job lot and as I've no idea of value it will have to be Ebay and would hope they might be bought by someone who would refurbish and actually make use of them. I have a couple of old plane as well so will dig them out and might add to the lot.

 

[D_W]

Matter of opinion, I guess. My luck seems to be that pitting always goes deeper than I think it does, and the crosscut saw relies on that tooth tip at the outside of the plate to be corrosion free and crisp.

The amount of pitting wouldn't bother me for a rip saw, and probably won't bother other people for either.

Disston's saw plates make great scrapers, so if I have a questionable saw but part of it is clear, i'm happy to keep the plate for scraper stock and toss the bad bits. I have made a crosscut saw into an 8 point rip, and it's sometimes useful, but the plates are usually thinner on those saws and not as robust, which can lead to trouble ripping something really hard (I like a saw like that for plane blanks - sometimes a wood like purpleheart will be rough going no matter what with a 5 point saw, and actually rips faster and much easier with a finer saw.

Anyway...always just opinion.

 

[Lons]

I'd definitely bow to your experience and knowledge DW just can't bring myself to scrap what, to me seems a perfectly good saw especially given that I know it's history since being new, just a shame that my friend who died of horrific esophageal cancer allowed his tools to get in such a state whilst he was ill, had I known, I would have sorted that out for him.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice.

Bob

 

[Jacob]

If you just want to use a saw then pitting isn't much of an issue. The odd tooth may end up less than 100% effective but will probably be up to speed after the next sharpening. Similarly with chisels, plane blades etc.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Given that they have straight blades, I'd say all of those could be made into good users given a bit of cleaning and a tickle-up with a file. None of them special, but all capable of being good, usable tools.

Interestingly, about the only one I'd have advocated ditching is the one with the blade sharpened so much there's barely a sliver left. However, I note Andy saying he likes the saw he has in similar condition - which just goes to show how much is down to opinion!

 

[D_W]

If you just want to use a saw then pitting isn't much of an issue. The odd tooth may end up less than 100% effective but will probably be up to speed after the next sharpening. Similarly with chisels, plane blades etc.

Yes, it'll still work. In a world where saws can sometimes be had in better shape for a few dollars, is it worth spending effort on? In my opinion, no.

Selling it to someone else who disagrees wouldn't be a bad idea if one has no need for the saw nuts.

It would probably horrify the current generation to know that lots of work can be completed with all kinds of snafus, like visible notches in chisels and plane blades, etc, or damaged corners on chisels. But we don't have to do it just to prove that we can.

 

[Jacob]

If you just want to use a saw then pitting isn't much of an issue. The odd tooth may end up less than 100% effective but will probably be up to speed after the next sharpening. Similarly with chisels, plane blades etc.

Yes, it'll still work. In a world where saws can sometimes be had in better shape for a few dollars, is it worth spending effort on? In my opinion, no. It's worth it if you sharpen your own - you then have a highly functional saw for very little effort.

A set of worthless old saws is the ideal opportunity to improve sharpening skills. The only problem is in keeping it simple - obsessive modern sharpeners have turned their attention to saws too, and should be ignored.*
I'm sure the previous owners would commend Lon's efforts - however they turned out

...
It would probably horrify the current generation to know that lots of work can be completed with all kinds of snafus, like visible notches in chisels and plane blades, etc, or damaged corners on chisels. ....

Agree

PS* e.g. they don't need "topping" very often, if at all; it's possible to avoid this altogether for the life of the saw. Excess topping is the quickest way to shorten the life of a saw.

 

[swagman]

THE DISSTON SAW, TOOL, AND FILE BOOK

If the teeth are uneven, it is necessary to "joint the saw" and
"shape the teeth" in accordance with the instructions below:


JOINTING

(To be done only when the teeth are uneven or incorrectly shaped,
as explained above). Unless the teeth are regular in size and shape
the set can never be regular and it is useless to attempt to regulate
them without "jointing" until all are of equal height.


TO JOINT A SAW

Place the saw in a clamp, handle to the right. Lay a mill file
lengthwise on the teeth. Pass it lightly back and forth the length of
the blade, on the tops of the teeth, until the file* touches the top of
every tooth. If the teeth of your saw are very uneven, it is best not
to make all the teeth the same height the first time they are "Jointed."
In this case "Joint" only the highest teeth first, then "Shape" (see
"Shaping the Teeth," below) the teeth that have been "Jointed,"
then "Joint" the teeth a second time, passing the file along the tops
of all the teeth until it touches every tooth. The teeth then will be of
equal height. Do not allow the file to tip to one side or the other.

 

[Jacob]

You shouldn't believe everything you read in books! He was completely wrong about the nib for starters. Nobody's perfect!
Basically it's good advice for a saw maker/restorer/beginner* but not for those who actually use them and sharpen their own. You can go a long way with a wavy edge and you can correct it to some extent with careful sharpening, without ever topping.

PS*come to think - it's bad advice for a beginner - he's got enough to worry about already and it's absolutely critical to file the teeth as they are (assuming it was properly shaped, set etc before getting blunt)) without changing the profile. Once you've got it you can sharpen up and down the saw quickly and easily without bothering about topping or about one or two recalcitrant, pitted or missing teeth.

 

[Lons]

You shouldn't believe everything you read in books! He was completely wrong about the nib for starters. Nobody's perfect!

I really was hoping you wouldn't go back down that route Jacob which is why I started a new thread rather than adding on to the other argument so I'm asking please don't do it, there's nothing to be gained.

I'm sure the previous owners would commend Lon's efforts - however they turned out

I'm reasonably skilled in saw sharpening Jacob so would have no problems with these tbh but now I'm retired I seem to have less time available than when running a business so don't do it. I know it's sacrilege to admit but after 20 years using throw away hardpoint saws for my business, of which I still own at least 6 unused saws, I'm out of the habit and can't be a***d.
Reason for that btw is that throw away saws are the only economical method on construction sites where you're providing tools to employees who don't / can't be bothered to look after them and where it isn't feasible for them to bring their own tools.

Too much to do, so little time.

cheers
Bob

 

[AndyT]

I've read through the advice from the Disston booklet, as quoted by Swagman.

Jacob, I don't think you need to object to it - it agrees with what you wrote!

It says that Jointing (aka Topping) is not part of routine sharpening and only needs to be done if a saw has uneven teeth.

So, if a user carefully maintains the sharpness of a saw by filing it carefully, without changing the shape of the teeth, jointing is not needed.

 

[Jacob]

Right! I didn't read it all I must admit.
It's just that modern sharpeners are a bit over keen on topping etc, if you read much of the stuff on line.

 

[swagman]

I've read through the advice from the Disston booklet, as quoted by Swagman.

Jacob, I don't think you need to object to it - it agrees with what you wrote!

It says that Jointing (aka Topping) is not part of routine sharpening and only needs to be done if a saw has uneven teeth.

So, if a user carefully maintains the sharpness of a saw by filing it carefully, without changing the shape of the teeth, jointing is not needed.

AndyT; you might need to read that paragraph again.

JOINTING

To be done only when the teeth are uneven or incorrectly shaped,
as explained above). Unless the teeth are regular in size and shape
the set can never be regular and it is useless to attempt to regulate
them without "jointing" until all are of equal height.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, but you seem to be forgetting that Disston don't know anything about saws.