Have your say

[Philip Streeting]

Thanks for the comment Pete in my last thread. I am surprised no-one else has ventured an opinion so far.

The reason for starting the thread was to draw attention to the idea that woodturning can be used for purposes other than making utility or functional items. It has the potential to be used for self-expression too and this is one example of my way of doing that.

I have given the piece the title of 'Ritual Vessel' and it is an interpretation of African and other fetish subjects.

Is it art? Is it craft? Does it matter? For woodturning to develop and move forward in the UK there may be a need for fresh look at what is going on and maybe a change in approach. It would be interesting to see some discussion or opinions. Contemporary woodturners seem to have a hard time getting their ideas accepted in the UK. Elsewhere in the world exciting things are happening in wood turning, why isn't it happening here?

 

[user 5053]

If you want to be an artist and all contemporary with a "fresh approach" etc then go and work in glass,ceramic, metal etc. You will find it nearly impossible to get anywhere in the art world working in wood.. Most galleries and the art establishment have a blind spot when it comes to wood. It's not "contemporary" they will say. Doing the simple things well in turning is often the hardest thing to do and it is what you have to do if you want to make any money at it. Most arty woodturning is cringe making rubbish, lets face it.

 

[TEP]

Hi Philip.

I have admired some of your work you have posted since joining the forum, but I think your evangelistic approach to wood as a art form is doomed to failure. This subject has raised it head over the last 12 years I have been interested in wood, and no doubt was around far earlier than that.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but again, woodturning, carving, and other disciplines are generally carried out on a relaxation/hobby basis so the majority of people will follow the traditional routes of the past, and enjoy every minute of it.

Which is not to say that there is anything wrong in 'trying to push the envelope' as they say, but to my mind that doesn't decry the people who turn out, pens, bowls and so on. I'm a firm believer in each to his own, and as long as it don't bother me, then good luck to them.

I do admire people similar to yourself who have a artistic bent, and a experimental mind to try unusual methods in embellishing your work. Yet again I say that if you are trying to mold the British public/craft people to a appreciation, and acceptance of artistic wood turning, it would be a lot easier to find a nice solid tree and bang your head against it. IMO!

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers Tam!
You've saved me quite a bit of typing :wink:

once again I'm in the unenviable position of saying 'wish I'd said that' :lol:

Just have to add that if we all adopted the 'artistic bent' someone would soon be along saying 'Why don't you make traditional stuff?' :roll:

 

[Scrums]

Oh dear.....art versus craft raises its head again.....

Most people in this forum turn purely for pleasure, with aspirations to go further perhaps. Some of us turn to make a profit, or with aspirations to....

Personally, I'm not sure where you're going with this thread - using the forum as a Gallery or trying to promote a debate.

Chris.

 

[Wanlock Dod]

Hi Philip,

I don't really see woodturning alone as an artform, although once combined with other artistic "disciplines" I'm sure that they do tend towards art. Stuff that has been made or produced solely on a lathe probably tends mostly towards the craft side of things, whereas items which have been manipulated further are (in my opinion) often tending more towards art, although this is surely something of a generalisation.

Once you're into the art thing I think that turning is competing against a whole range of other methods of creating 3D pieces, which tends to make me ask the question of "what does the woodturning aspect add to this?". I think that in some cases the turning element might well be critical to a piece which is better than other pieces constructed by different methods, but suspect that probably most often the turning aspect of a piece will be a bit peripheral to the success of the piece overall.

So, in conclusion, does art need woodturning? :?

Cheers,

Dod

 

[mrs. sliver]

I understand what you mean Philip. you can see sites from other countries and galleries in other counties where wood art is far more appreciated than here. and maybe it will change sometime.

I love to see the experimental works and think yours are fantastic! they belong in the art galleries, and should be appreciated for what they are . genuine, beautiful, original art!

But, most on here, myself included, are purely woodturners for pleasure.
not all wanting to experiment with carving and mouldings ect. I find your things inspiring, but far far beyond what I do. and although I would like to aim for that direction, I am more than happy with my simple and not very perfect turnings .. because I enjoy it!!!

As to your real point, I think we are ALL aware of wood art on here, and would all agree it should be just as valid as any other medium in art the art world! It is the public in general and the galleries you need to convince not us!

 

[Bodrighy]

I understand what you mean Philip. you can see sites from other countries and galleries in other counties where wood art is far more appreciated than here. and maybe it will change sometime.

I love to see the experimental works and think yours are fantastic! they belong in the art galleries, and should be appreciated for what they are . genuine, beautiful, original art!

But, most on here, myself included, are purely woodturners for pleasure.
not all wanting to experiment with carving and mouldings ect. I find your things inspiring, but far far beyond what I do. and although I would like to aim for that direction, I am more than happy with my simple and not very perfect turnings .. because I enjoy it!!!

As to your real point, I think we are ALL aware of wood art on here, and would all agree it should be just as valid as any other medium in art the art world! It is the public in general and the galleries you need to convince not us!

Amen

Pete

 

[big soft moose]

Oh dear.....art versus craft raises its head again.....

that was my reaction too - this a debate that has been done to death on forums and in the turning press.

IMO its a pointless question as all true art (as oposed to a messy bed or half a cow in formadehyde) involves a high degree of craftsmanship , while most crafts also require an artistic eye and inspiration to do well.

the line that functional pieces are craft while decorative is art is artificial and equally pointless - to turn a nice functional piece - for example one of don whites salad bowls requires a good eye and an apreciation of form , while the sort of work output by mark hancock et al while definitely artistic in nature certainly requires a high degree of turning craftsmanship (which is one reason why my attemps to do the same thing are a pale imitation of marks craft/art). Also artistic pieces are also functional - their function being to be attractive and decorative (and for the pro pieces that the client will want to buy).

At the end of the day we are all wood turners and everyones aim is to do it well/ to the best of their ability - who really cares whether we are artists or craftmen - like i said i suspect that most of us are a bit of both.

 

[Philip Streeting]

Thanks for the replies and input. Sadly, I think what my thread was attempting to do has possibly been misinterpreted. I thought that showing the piece being made and constructed might prompt some questions. I also thought that although the piece would not be to everyone’s taste that some questions might be raised on finish, colouring techniques, texturing etc. Would this have happened if it had been a bowl or a box? Maybe it was the shape, the ideas or my attitude that is wrong.

My impression was the Forum was set up as a place for learning and sharing ideas and techniques. I thought this was what I was doing. I was either mistaken, misguided or came across as arrogant.

Showing pictures of previous work seems to have been a mistake too there were techniques used on some pieces that could be used on any turning but again no questions were forthcoming.

One of the reasons why glass, metal and ceramics may be succeeding is that the learning is based in art schools sadly woodturning doesn’t have that route.

Having taught in art schools I am aware of the benefits of being taught how to question, how to research, how to formulate ideas, how to create etc. in a supported environment. Here questioning, challenging, thinking as well as doing are equal partners in the process of making.

I will continue from time to time to submit new pieces on the Forum – it seems from the number of views that there is some interest in alternative ways of doing and making.

In the meantime, if anyone is interested I will happily offer individual learning days at no cost, basic lunch included. All you will need to do is provide your own wood.

Example areas I could cover include:

Theory
Improving your design skills
Exploring creative approaches to your work
Research skills
Introducing design and 3D software

Practical:
Airbrushing
Carving and texturing experiments
Experimenting with colour
Experimenting with alternative materials and methods

No turning instruction - there are others here who are much more knowledgeable and technically competent to offer that advice.

You never know it could improve your box, bowl, pens vases etc. I am not on a mission to get people to work in my style or to take my approach. Asking questions and learning new techniques should be a lifelong process, it makes what you choose to do more interesting, fulfilling and challenging.

So if anyone wishes to take up my offer please send me a PM and I’ll provide a telephone number for you to get in touch. I won’t be able to do this in the next couple of weeks – off on hols.

Best wishes to all and happy turning – whatever style or approach you take.

Philip

 

[Philip Streeting]

If anyone is interested in finding out the ideas behind my piece and other ramblings on it you will find them here:

http://philip-streeting.blogspot.com/20 ... piece.html

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification of your reasons for posting Philip.

Whilst I admire (on occasion :wink: ) creative pieces in wood or any medium I'm not moved to pursue the artistic route. There's so much hoohah (excreta tauri)associated with 'art' thing (think Hirst/Emmen[sp?] and tyred submarines) that it becomes a turn off for me.

I much prefer the simple approach... I'll re-use the Wine analogy: If I like it, it's a good'un... its provenance, origin or "Raison d'etre" are of no importance (unless I want another bottle :lol: ).

None of the above detracts from your obvious enthusiasm and accomplishments. I applaud your generous offer of insights into 'design' ... I'm tempted because any broadening of perspective is always a good thing, thank you :!:

I've just 'lifted' this from your blog:

Is it art? Is it craft? Does it matter? In the end, subjectively, you either like it or you don’t.

succinct :lol:

 

[Bodrighy]

I remember seeing that tyre submarine....blimey you must be as old as me :lol: I thought it was quite clever . I really can't cope with preserved cows and dirty bedrooms though. And I still think Modigliani was actually a colour blind chimp and Picasso developed really serious vision prpblems in later llife as well so perhaps I am just a Philistine.

My personal definition of art versus craft is simple. If it's functional it's craft if it isn't it's art. May not suit anyone else but works for me. Whether I like something or not is another matter.

Don't quite know where this leaves much of your work Graham unless you have a contract with the little people :lol:

Pete

 

[CHJ]

.......Don't quite know where this leaves much of your work Graham unless you have a contract with the little people :lol:
...

No Pete, it's Specsavers :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I can't see the problem :lol:

 

[Bodrighy]

I can't see the problem :lol:

narro haud magis

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

Cornish?

...or one of the other 'ish's

 

[Bodrighy]

Cornish?

...or one of the other 'ish's

No Latinish...means say no more

 

[Mark Hancock]

I applaud your generous offer of insights into 'design' ... I'm tempted because any broadening of perspective is always a good thing, thank you :!:

Graham
Go for it, I know you wouldn't regret it. I've known Phillip for a relatively short while but in that time I have learnt so much just from the discussions we have had about design, seeking inspiration, woodturning in general etc. My own problem now is finding the time to put the ideas and techniques I've learnt into practice.

To anyone whose interested in broadening their knowledge I'd recommend they take up this generous offer. It's not often something like this comes along for free. Grab it before it disappears

Phillip
Hope this hasn't caused you too much embarrassment but I also hope you get inundated with requests =D>

By the way enjoy your hols.

 

[gasmansteve]

In the meantime, if anyone is interested I will happily offer individual learning days at no cost, basic lunch included. All you will need to do is provide your own wood.

Love to take you up on the offer Phil but a wee bit far to come from Gods own country :lol: (ie Yorkshire)
Thanks anyway
Steve