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[TEP]

Mornin' Philip.

Thanks for the replies and input. Sadly, I think what my thread was attempting to do has possibly been misinterpreted. I thought that showing the piece being made and constructed might prompt some questions. I also thought that although the piece would not be to everyone’s taste that some questions might be raised on finish, colouring techniques, texturing etc. Would this have happened if it had been a bowl or a box? Maybe it was the shape, the ideas or my attitude that is wrong.

My impression was the Forum was set up as a place for learning and sharing ideas and techniques. I thought this was what I was doing. I was either mistaken, misguided or came across as arrogant.

It appears that I came across a bit harsh to your original post, not understanding what you where really trying to do. I assumed, mistakenly, that we were on another Art v Craft discussion.

Please accept my apologies if I caused any offence, and hope I haven't put you off sharing your obvious talents with the forum members. And yes I do believe the forum is here to share ideas, and help, other wise I wouldn't be here either.

 

[Wanlock Dod]

Hi Philip,

In the meantime, if anyone is interested I will happily offer individual learning days at no cost, basic lunch included. All you will need to do is provide your own wood.

I'm sure you'll wish you hadn't offered, some of the "non turning" stuff you do does look great, as I see it perhaps more important than the turning in some cases.

I'm not very local to Yorkshire, but it is a nice place for a visit, so maybe I'll try to take you up on the offer at some time in the future.

Cheers,

Dod

 

[Philip Streeting]

I would prefer it if no-one apologises for previous entires in this thread.

Tam, if you have read some of the things I have written elsewhere you will realise what you have written is mild in comparison to observations I have been making recently and in the past.

The thread title did lay me open criticism and that was the point of it.

It may have seemed that my message was detrimental to all those who produce conventional turning, this is not what I was intending to portray so maybe I should apologise too if that is the way my messages have been read.

My next entry may be more helpful in describing what I was trying to put across. Sorry in advance if it is too long.

Philip

P.S. Thanks Mark for the kind comments above and for those who are going to Birmingham this weekend - think yourselves lucky. Listen, learn and above all else ask questions - not often you will have the chance of a freebie like this, in an informal setting, from a leading UK turner.

 

[user 5053]

The tone of this thread is a little condescending and sneering at the ordinary guys and smacks a little of woodturning snobbery.

 

[loz]

condescending

ROFL

 

[Anonymous]

The tone of this thread is a little condescending and sneering at the ordinary guys and smacks a little of woodturning snobbery.

Evil, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder...

I can put no finer point on it than to say that your comment is BS but I acknowledge your right to express your opinion.

 

[cornucopia]

:sign3: ( i agree with graham(old soke)and loz's comments above)

edited to avoid confusion

 

[TEP]

Thanks Philip.

But I don't mind 'fessing up if I think I'm wrong, or made a mistake. Just watch me if I think I'm right though. :twisted: :lol: Ain't none of us perfect.

 

[Anonymous]

... Ain't none of us perfect.

Speak for yourself Tam :lol:

 

[Philip Streeting]

Thanks for your contribution Cornuopia. I think I understand but I might be mistaken and would be grateful if you could put it in plain language. I don't understand text speak or smileys.

I notice in your threads you don't describe your work or equipment using this system of communication is there a reason for this difference in approach?

Best wishes

Philip

 

[cornucopia]

Thanks for your contribution Cornuopia. I think I understand but I might be mistaken and would be grateful if you could put it in plain language. I don't understand text speak or smileys.

I notice in your threads you don't describe your work or equipment using this system of communication is there a reason for this difference in approach?

Best wishes

Philip

sorry Philip somtimes i get Emoticon fever :lol:
edited and put on emoticon rations from now on

 

[TEP]

Cheers Graham, your all heart! :roll:

 

[big soft moose]

condescending

ROFL

LMAO - yes i concur you have a perfect right to any opinion you hold soulfly - but I (and i suspect others) would be more inclined to take notice if you werent also known for posting things like

what are they ? they look a little like bangles

and other such unhelpful remarks to those turners that you percieve as being less skilled than yourself


for myself i dont find phillip condecending - like some others here i misinterpreted his original intent and thought we were in for another art vs craft debate.

that not being the case IMo phillip should be commended for stretching the boundaries and trying new things - we might not all want to try them but it is still interesting to here about them.

Also phillip has put his money where his mouth is both by showing us his work and by his extremly generous offer of free tuition for those looking to expand their range

 

[Philip Streeting]

An approach to design for woodturning

Tea light holders

The two items shown below were specially turned for the one and only club talk I have given. It was on the subject of design and wood turning. There were two sessions of two hours each. It caused some controversy.

My idea was to stimulate some thoughts on how we consider what we make. Alternative methods for design were offered including the use of computer software as an aid.

The examples below were used to pose questions and describe solutions or ideas.

Briefly, I chose to use tea light holders as a starting point. I have seen many versions of these.

One approach to designing a tea light holder might be to start with an insert from a woodturning supplies source and turn a receiving recess in a shaped piece of wood – job done. The first example is kind of like this.

You could make it similar to something you’ve seen before, maybe a step-by-step plan from a publication.


An alternative way – the way I am suggesting – would be to think before you start. Write a brief for yourself maybe. Take a look at other tea light holders made from wood or maybe other materials. Do some research and in this way you are more likely to make something that is unique to you.

Version one
Bowl form 30cm dia. Spirit stained with acrylic over the top, textured.

While on holiday I saw a blue glass tea light holder, it was cheap I liked its shape and bought as a possible component for turning. You can see it in this piece below. For the purposes of the talk I described how I had thought the problem through and considered some what if’s.

If I make a bowl it will appeal to someone who is looking for a bowl
If I make a tea light holder it will appeal to someone looking for just that.

What if I make a tea light holder that doubles as a bowl and vice versa – potentially I have two purchasers who may be interested.

What if I display the bowl on my stand and want to sell it for a good price - I can now talk about dual use - it may seem better value.

What if my purchaser has some sophistication - I can say that it actually also a table centre for a dinner party to display fruit. Does a fruit bowl have to be deep. A pineapple will fit nicely in the centre and other fruits could be displayed around it. Panders to creative souls and provides part ownership of the concept – they have to participate to complete the piece and take credit for the fruit arrangement. (the point is I - and probably most people - keep my fruit in a fridge so why would I want a fruit bowl unless it was to show off a bit when I have guests)

So this item now has three potential selling points or bonuses attached to the design concept - my price might now begin to look reasonable and you can’t buy a bowl like this in IKEA - it might be special.

(I also just happen to have some packs of different coloured tea lights (cheap from IKEA) I like this colour what do you think? Involved in the purchase again. Fine have these three on me. Ah a free gift too! Nice man.) Just joking but I think you get the point.

It is also safe, the candle part is inside glass so the wood won’t catch fire and it is difficult to knock over.

It looks contemporary. The story attached to the design helps a gallery to sell it on your behalf. A care leaflet with some pictures showing its uses might help too.
If it is being purchased as gift the sense of the design might not be passed on without some instructions. It also has your name and address attached.





Version 2
Joss Stick Holder – plain wood, 30cms high, 12cm wide.
Tall form, spindle turning

This time the main consideration was to make a stable form that would be difficult to knock over so the base/height ratios were important, as was the shape it needs to be heavy at the bottom.

It has a small hole drill in the top to take the joss stick the wide rim acts as a dust catcher.

This time the what if's were suggested afterward

What if I had hollowed a recess to take a tea light holder then drilled my hole.

I could have had a dual use item again.

I also think with a bit of tweaking maybe a metal rim and insert - this could make a contemporary looking candlestick.





So I am now beginning to think in terms a of a series functional items that look fairly well designed and are different from other turners work who may be presenting at the same venue. I have a style – my style my display looks cohesive and considered.

Just ideas and food for thought. That’s it for a couple of weeks.

 

[Philip Streeting]

Thanks for clarifying the comment - I had in fact read the original symbols differently. It's an example of the problem with written language we can tend to read into something what we want to see and it can easily lead to misunderstandings! Much better to talk face to face where possible.

Best wishes
Philip

 

[Anonymous]

3 USPs for the tea light... and for me, a new approach to whatever I turn.

The final 'shape' of whatever I turn is determined by what pleases me... a very self indulgent attitude :shock:

Your post, Philip, has left me with something of a dilemma... do I produce an item that has been 'designed' for max selling potential or continue to indulge meself?

mmmmmm... I suspect the latter will predominate principally because at this time I don't give a jot whether I sell anything or not. (Terrible attitude... 'If you like it, buy it... if you don't, sword orf!)

The dished version of the tea light has the most visual appeal for me...enhanced by its versatility... yep, I'd buy that were I a punter :wink:
The joss stick holder doesn't appeal visually because of its bulk compared to the stick... I'd consider a pierced hollow form with a wider base (Cutting Crew style :wink: ) to relieve the tension between the two components.

Thanks Philip... who needs stimulation at this time of the morning when domestic trivia is beckoning :lol:

 

[Mark Hancock]

IMo phillip should be commended for stretching the boundaries and trying new things - we might not all want to try them but it is still interesting to here about them.

Well said. =D>

To expand on this a little, we as turners , be it hobbyists or professional, tend to work in isolation. Some may not be club members or able to visit shows and events. Consequently the full scope of the craft including available tools, new techniques, designs etc may not be accessible to them. A forum such as this is a great resource where that information can be shared freely. Not everything will interest everyone and each will have their own opinion on a topic. But it is still worth looking. There have been numerous occassions when I've seen something where I've disliked the finished article but a process or technique used to achieve it has caught my imagination and led me in a new direction.

One of the best pieces of advice I was given was if you don't like something or it doesn't interest you, look again and ask why. If you don't you may never know what you've missed out on.

 

[Dave Atkinson]

I've just finished reading this thread (several times) and I like the ideas.

I've been turning for 8 years but as I work full time, most of it away frm home, shed time is limited. However, i've got to a stage now where I am (I think) reasonably competent. That means I can create something without too many "prototypes" ending up in the bin. I'm 53 and keen to make up for lost turning time so I'm always trying to push the boundaries of what I do - perhaps that's why there are so many rejects, but each time I try and learn from what I've done wrong.

Whether you like the output or not is perhaps not too important - someone else will. I'm not sure I like the bowl or joss stick holder above but I can appreciate the work and ideas that have gone into it and from that I can develop the idea and perhaps create something that has similar characteristics and appeal to others. I particularly like the "multi-function" approach. It occurred to me that had the base been finished differently yu could have out a tea light in that as well, especially as it is a different forma and colour.

I'm a firm believer in pushing the boundaries - of course that means that there will be waste but I'm prepared to take the chance. It also means that it may be sometime before I try excuting some of these ideas as I'm trying to get good at one thing before I move on to something else and I have a long list!

If I'm down your way Philip I'll get in touch. In the meantime enjoy your hols and I look forward to reading more of your ideas in the future.

Cheers Dave

 

[CHJ]

....One of the best pieces of advice I was given was if you don't like something or it doesn't interest you, look again and ask why. If you don't you may never know what you've missed out on.

One of the reasons I set up the Critique Listing, hoping to get some means of easy reference to a variety of concepts and opinions and to try and trigger critique as opposed to criticism.

One of the problems with all embracing threads that have excellent examples and feedback comments is they tend to get lost in the archives and are difficult to reference unless a specific posting has its own Post subject: Heading Title, such as this one by Philip something that is not enforced when making a reply post.

I have been looking at several of the recent threads carrying excellent work examples but because either the subject was not submitted specifically for critique or because even when a poster is obviously quite open to critique in a thread I have no means of referencing part way through a thread to add the reference to the listing.

 

[Philip Streeting]

Chas,

Thanks for the info, next time I will start each subject under a different heading. Didn't occur to me it might cause referencing problems.

Best wishes
Philip