Handsaws

[chingerspy]

haha... Alf, I did some research on sawmaking history yesterday while dodging work. I was going to post but something timed out on me and I couldn't be bothered to rewrite it all, readers might thank the internet gods for that

I didn't realise S&J had been around for as long as they had... the original company that Mr. Spear worked for was in business circa 1650!

Well its probably going to be next month before I buy now so plenty of time to look around. Ed, I also really like the american revival ones from say LN (of course) but the £180 price tag is a little off putting. I do love my LN tenon and carcass saws tho

I've just seen these in The Small Workshop book in WHSmith:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Vict ... -23577.htm
Very nice in both price and looks and if they are good enough for Mr. Ralph Loughton they should cut ok too.

 

[bugbear]

If you're prepared to learn how to recognise, clean up and sharpen saws, you can have GREAT examples of old brands (e.g. S&J, Tyzack) for under a tenner at car boot sales.

Often under a fiver. Sometimes well under.

So many people use either hardpoint or power saws that second hand saws are available very cheaply.

Here's a pretty, and comfortable, handle from a saw I cleaned up. It cost a quid (and some time...).

This more modern S&J cost two quid (the seller just wouldn't come down ;-)

BugBear

 

[chingerspy]

I rarely get to car boots but apparently there is a regular one not far from me so might have a look. I stopped buying from ebay a while ago after some problems with paypal.

I have been looking though and there are a few Tyzack, Disston and S&J models up there for anything from £5-10. I'd have to get a saw set and files and learn how to use them too of course. I like what you've done with that Warranted Superior.

 

[bugbear]

I rarely get to car boots but apparently there is a regular one not far from me so might have a look. I stopped buying from ebay a while ago after some problems with paypal.

I have been looking though and there are a few Tyzack, Disston and S&J models up there for anything from £5-10. I'd have to get a saw set and files and learn how to use them too of course. I like what you've done with that Warranted Superior.

Restoring a bad saw is rather difficult. Given that I've never (IIRC) seen a s/h saw at a car boot over a tenner, only buy REALLY good saws.

To spot saws, first look for curvy (almost no flats anywhere) wooden handles. Not all nice handles are on good saws, but all good saws have good handles. So that's your first target, and it can spotted from a country mile away, even if there's a load of saws in a bucket.

You're then looking for a non-kinked blade. Hold the saw and sight down the teeth. You want a nice straight line (in the case of a non-back saw, point it down slightly, to let gravity take hold a little).

Next, look for the teeth/teeth line. Fairly obviously, you want all (or very nearly all) teeth present, and in a straight, or slightly convex (breasted) line.

Plate condition - how rusty is it, and do you fancy cleaning it?

Handle - is it loose, and if so is it badly loose? Are all the nuts present and matching?

If it passes all these tests, consider buying it.

BugBear

 

[chingerspy]

Thanks for the tips! I'm definately considering it as a side project, something to do indoors when the weather is really bad i.e. spitting.. got snowed on on Saturday! O to be able to work inside!

 

[mr grimsdale]

...
To spot saws, first look for curvy (almost no flats anywhere) wooden handles. Not all nice handles are on good saws, but all good saws have good handles. ....

Wouldn't entirely agree. Curly handles went out of fashion a long time ago and plenty of later good quality saws have plain handles. I've got Sanderson & Kaiser 22", 26", tenon; Spear & Jackson 22" and DT , all with plain handles, but excellent saws.

PS I agree abt the saw handles in your snaps above, yes one is pretty the other is boring, but I wouldn't expect there to be much difference in the feel and performance of the 2 saws AOTBE. The new one looks good value as long as it isn't kinked - hardly used. The rust doesn't matter, within reason.

 

[woodbloke]

Martin the Woodkateer supplied me with my Disstons, a nice cross cut and a proper 4tpi rip (one with two holes in the handle) both nice saws once they were cleaned up...no pics though. If you have a look at the Disston site it's interesting to try and date the saws from the profiles of the medallions - Rob

 

[mr grimsdale]

I've got a Disston with a very plain handle. Excellent saw but not noticeably different in use from a Spear & Jackson, or any curly handled earlier versions.

 

[bugbear]

...
To spot saws, first look for curvy (almost no flats anywhere) wooden handles. Not all nice handles are on good saws, but all good saws have good handles. ....

Wouldn't entirely agree. Curly handles went out of fashion a long time ago and plenty of later good quality saws have plain handles. I've got Sanderson & Kaiser 22", 26", tenon; Spear & Jackson 22" and DT , all with plain handles, but excellent saws.

PS I agree abt the saw handles in your snaps above, yes one is pretty the other is boring, but I wouldn't expect there to be much difference in the feel and performance of the 2 saws AOTBE. The new one looks good value as long as it isn't kinked - hardly used. The rust doesn't matter, within reason.

I'm talking about the roundness of the handle; specifically the presence/absence of a horrid arris. Even the Spearior (which I believe to be pre 1965) has a decently round and comfortable handle.

Quite a lot of more recent handles look like they made using only a bandsaw.

Now, I'm aware that wooden handles can be improved (and have done so myself).

That's not my point.

My point is that for convenience at a car boot sale, an excellent handle is a good and rapid proxy for an excellent saw.

BugBear

 

[awkwood]

When i first started out the old saws everyone recommended as very good quality were, nonpariel, atkins silver steel, roberts and lee, disston, sorby amd tyzack
Are any of these makers still doing quality saws now?

 

[chingerspy]

Roberts and Lee are still being made, but are now part of Thomas Flinn-Garlick here:

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/

They seem to be keeping a lot of the old Sheffield brands going.

 

[mr grimsdale]

Roberts and Lee are still being made, but are now part of Thomas Flinn-Garlick here:

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/

They seem to be keeping a lot of the old Sheffield brands going.

Has always been like that from the very beginnings - brands are mobile but the manufacturing skill behind them is steady.

 

[bugbear]

When i first started out the old saws everyone recommended as very good quality were, nonpariel, atkins silver steel, roberts and lee, disston, sorby amd tyzack
Are any of these makers still doing quality saws now?

Not that I know of.


BTW, Non pareil was a sub-brand of Tyzack IIRC, with an Elephant as the logo.

BugBear

 

[awkwood]

Thomas Flinn-Garlick seem to own all the good old traditional brands
which saws are there premium ranges?

Pax and roberst and lee i would guess, but are all the saws made using the same blades and different handles or is there still differences as there would be when they were made in there own factory

If this is the case its going to be a case of buying a name rather than a saw that feels right

 

[chingerspy]

The Lynx ones seem to be their Premium range from what I've gathered from looking at them and thinking of ways to scrape the money together matey

 

[Mr Ed]

I think Pax is the top of the range. Wether its any good or not I don't know...

Ed

 

[mr grimsdale]

I've bought another new saw!
They are OK these Brit saws, just the marketing is crap and you may have to sharpen it.

 

[Harbo]

Mr Grimsdale said

They are OK these Brit saws, just the marketing is crap and you may have to sharpen it.

And if it is like my Crown, reduce the set and fit a new handle?

Rod

 

[mr grimsdale]

Mr Grimsdale said

They are OK these Brit saws, just the marketing is crap and you may have to sharpen it.

And if it is like my Crown, reduce the set and fit a new handle?

Rod

You have to sharpen and set anyway sooner or later so that's OK, but they do miss an opportunity by not doing it properly in the first place - even if it's only machine done. A sensible dealer could offer both options - teeth cut only, or sharpened as well. That's how they would have been bought from a local tool dealer in the old days, but it's a new market with a new interest in hand tools.
I guess the top of the range Pax will be sharp though.
The handles are OK - cheap and unattractive but it's a slight exaggeration to say that they are impossible to work with.

Lets face it they are going to be bloody expensive if they look like this:

Steampunk? Sci fi Gothic?

It seems a pity that Brit tool makers can make perfectly good tools quite cheaply but fail to knock the spots of the foreign competition.

 

[Harbo]

The Gramercy saw pictured above costs $75 in kit form.
Workshop Heaven sell a range of Atkinson Walker saw kits from £39.
Not too difficult to make a decent handle.

Rod