Hand saws

[Sheffield Tony]

So, whilst thinking about saws - I see quite a few good options for backsaws, and discussion of their relative merits. But what of handsaws, rip and crosscut ?

I have a Thomas Flinn rip saw, boight because I wanted a proper rip saw, and modern hard point saws rarely come in rip variants, and old rip saws seem less common than crosscut. I bought the cheaper Lynx branded saw, but wonder if I might have been better going upmarket ( e.g the Pax) to avoid the fettling the Lynx needed.

Now I still use hardpoint saws for crosscutting. This gives a good supply of scrap saws for scrapers ... but is it worth changing ? Do I buy another cheap Irwin, Bacho, etc. Or a Flinn saw - and if so, any thoughts on the bewildering choice of brands ? Or I could possibly acquire and sharpen an old S&J Sperior 88. (I am happy sharpening saws. I think.) What do you use ?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Way back in the 1980s, when I knew even less about woodworking than I do now, I invested some hard-earned in a 26" 6tpi Tyzack Sons and Turner Nonpariel, which at the time were still being made. A couple of years later, I bought a Roberts and Lee Dorchester 22" 10tpi panel saw to keep it company. Apart from the handles, which might be better shaped to the hand, both saws have done sterling work. If I were allowed to keep only one, it would be the 22" panel saw. Most of my work is in dry hardwoods of about 1" thickness, which it eats with no bother, and it cuts thicker stuff quite happily, just not quite as fast as the 26". Another plus for the 22" is that it's lighter to use.

One big advantage of buying new is that there's no bother with cockled blades. I've had quite a few older saws of late, a couple from dealers and several from Ebay, and most were not straight. Dirt cheap, but bent. They can be knocked straight(ish), but it's not an easy job. Finding 26" handsaws is a doddle on the 'bay (carpenter's and joiner's first choice size, I suppose), but panel saws with finer teeth seem rather scarcer. That said, if you're prepared to buy two or three to get one good one, and maybe re-handle it, you could end up with a really first-class saw for not too many pennies.

P.S. I still keep a hardpoint handy for 'rough' jobs, though.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Thanks to CC for sharing your experience. Interesting, the preference for the 10tpi panel saw - it is probably better suited to what I want to do, good thought. I will definitely keep a hardpoint about for rough jobs !

Obviously hand saws are not as exciting a topic as back saws, planes or random argument - I'm a tad disappointed that of 150 views or so only one had something to say. Even "don't bother - I just use a hardoint saw" would have been useful info.

If anyone is interested interested I asked Katie Flinn, and the summary of the Flinn models is this, I think in roughly decreasing order of price:

Pax - two tone beech handle, solid brass screws/caps and medallion. Taper ground and breasted tooth line and handsharpened
Dorchester - Danish oiled walnut handle, solid brass screws/caps. Taper ground and breasted tooth line and handsharpened
Lynx - Walnut handle option, solid brass screws/caps. Taper ground blade with straight tooth line and handsharpened
Lynx - beech handle option, brass plated screws/caps. Taper ground blade with straight tooth line.
William Greaves - beech handle, brass plated screws/caps. Flat ground blade with straight tooth line.

The steel is all the same steel but mainly the finish is different.

I will probably plan to try one next time I buy - I've had very nice response from Flinn whenever I've dealt with them.

 

[MIGNAL]

At one time I had the Pax taper ground, breasted tooth line. It cut extremely well. Unfortunately someone stole it when I carelessly left it unattended. Some of those thieves are quick.
I doubt you will notice much difference with the straight line lower models. It's pretty much all in the sharpening. The handles aren't the most elegant but they can be reshaped.

 

[GLFaria]

Thanks to CC for sharing your experience. Interesting, the preference for the 10tpi panel saw - it is probably better suited to what I want to do, good thought. I will definitely keep a hardpoint about for rough jobs !

Obviously hand saws are not as exciting a topic as back saws, planes or random argument - I'm a tad disappointed that of 150 views or so only one had something to say. Even "don't bother - I just use a hardoint saw" would have been useful info.

If anyone is interested interested I asked Katie Flinn, and the summary of the Flinn models is this, I think in roughly decreasing order of price:

Pax - two tone beech handle, solid brass screws/caps and medallion. Taper ground and breasted tooth line and handsharpened
Dorchester - Danish oiled walnut handle, solid brass screws/caps. Taper ground and breasted tooth line and handsharpened
Lynx - Walnut handle option, solid brass screws/caps. Taper ground blade with straight tooth line and handsharpened
Lynx - beech handle option, brass plated screws/caps. Taper ground blade with straight tooth line.
William Greaves - beech handle, brass plated screws/caps. Flat ground blade with straight tooth line.

The steel is all the same steel but mainly the finish is different.

I will probably plan to try one next time I buy - I've had very nice response from Flinn whenever I've dealt with them.

ok, ok, I felt I had nothing useful to say, but since you ask for "any" reply...

I don't much use a handsaw, as the kinds of works I do are all in a very small scale and those now ubiquitous crosscut, hardened teeth saws suit me well enough.

However, I lately needed to rip cut a couple of very soft wood pine planks, and those saws didn't work so well, so I pulled out my oldish Sandvik panel saw, about 40 years old, grey plastic handle and steel scews with hexagon nuts. I hadn't used this saw for a good number of years.

It was crosscut sharpened, and I really wanted it rip, so proceeded to re-sharpen it. I shouldn't have been surprised, the plate is a very fine Sandvik swedish steel, quite hard, and once filed and sharpened it cuts very well. As far as I could find, Sandvik/Bahco has done some organisational shufling along the years and now Bahco carries the saw business. I don't know if they still use the same kind of steel. If they don't, they should.

So, I decided to refurbish this saw completely, get rid of the horrible grey plastic thing that passes for a handle and make a proper handle of nice wood, and secure it with proper brass screws. I ordered the screws and nuts from Flinn (BTW, I agree Katie is very helpfull), but I still like better the flush, flat type screws, so I may even end up making them myself, if my very old and battered Emco mini-lathe so agrees to. I already started on the plate, but now being Summer and my being a slow worker - and not having the accomodations required to work on more than one project at a time - the completion of the work may take some time. I will post some photos when it is finished.

And I will be on the lookout for a couple more of those old Sandvik plates, with or without the awful plastic handles.

 

[Corneel]

What I have in crosscut:
Diston d8 26" 7tpi. Only for knocking down big timbers.
Diston d8 26" 9tpi. Use it a lot more. Leaves a pretty smooth cut.
Unknown(?) 22" 10 tpi. Very usefull too allthough it ain't pretty.
A modern hardtooth model for all rough work, plywood etc. It is now finally worn out after cutting some window frames in the wall. Touching the stone with the teeth isn't good for them either.

Overall I like to use handsaws a lot. on a sawbench with the large ones and the small one at a bench. You have to learn how to sharpen them tough otherwise they are useless.

 

[Jacob]

They last a lot longer and are always sharp if you sharpen them yourself. Saw doctors tend to re-cut the teeth if they are a bit rough and left too long.

 

[G S Haydon]

S&J secondhand are very good value. Not cool but get the job done.

 

[bugbear]

S&J secondhand are very good value. Not cool but get the job done.

How dare you!

post807213.html?hilit=spearior#p807213

I think that's pretty cool. Cuts fast too.

BugBear

 

[Steve1066]

S&J skew back 7tpi
Just put it in to service after 22 years in the cupboard. Hard point were king when I started

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Whilst we're on the subject of handsaws, the first saw I ever bought was a Spear and Jackson Workhorse - their DIY range. Beech handle (horrible shape, awful finish) with a non-taper ground blade. (At the time, I knew no better.) Apart from being a blister-raiser, it cut fine.

I know taper grinding is expected on 'posh' saws, but is it really necessary?

Edit to add - I've just checked the blade of my current hardpoint saw (Stanley). That's not taper ground, either. I think I've probably just answered my own question...

Which raises another. Given that taper grinding is a faff, and a significant addition to manufacturing costs, why did the manufacturers of old and today's top-end makers go to so much trouble to include it?

 

[Lons]

WOW
That abusive post was very quickly removed. I was just about to complain #-o

 

[G S Haydon]

S&J secondhand are very good value. Not cool but get the job done.

How dare you!

post807213.html?hilit=spearior#p807213

I think that's pretty cool. Cuts fast too.

BugBear

:lol: The kids today aint gonna rock the S&J vibe BB, they are perhaps the corduroy slacks of saws. Not that it bothers me at all, I've never been that cool. Also, take better care of your saws, looks like it has a few rust spots :? :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Judging by the amount of shavings, the iron on that plane must be ground almost semi circular!

 

[G S Haydon]

Let's not get into that Philip! That leads to the dark side

 

[Phil Pascoe]

:lol: :lol:

 

[Jacob]

.........Given that taper grinding is a faff, and a significant addition to manufacturing costs, why did the manufacturers of old and today's top-end makers go to so much trouble to include it?

Because it sells. People like innovations and the illusion of added value. The skew back is another pointless innovation.

I use this old Sorby quite a lot. it was very rusty when I got it but now has a shine, albeit black to dark brown in colour.

 

[G S Haydon]

I loved that saw the first time I saw this photo, still looks badass!

 

[Jacob]

It's a nice saw to use and seems to stay sharp. I'm not sure quite what it is that makes it a good saw but it certainly is a goodun.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Taper grinding isn't really an 'innovation', though, is it? Benjamin Seaton's handsaws (1797) were taper ground (by hand and eye, and surprisingly accurately). Your old Sorby will be taper ground.

It may be that in the days when saw blades were finish ground by hand, grinding a taper was easier than grinding parallel. The habit stuck in more mechanised days because that's what craftsmen had come to expect.

Anybody else got any thoughts on the matter?