Freehand Sharpening - which technique?

[Jacob]

...He sais it is quicker because you can use more speed and pressure...

That's it basically. you have to be a bit gentle with the 30º edge but once you've dipped the handle you can relax and just wang it to and fro as fast and hard as you like.

 

[Jacob]

...........
It seems to me that if you have a rounded bevel and you are deliberately trying to "roll" the bevel over the stone, only a tiny part of the bevel will be in contact with the stone at any one moment. Compare that with a flat bevel; the whole bevel will always be in contact with the stone .

Therefore the flat bevel method would be much faster. .......

Why "therefore"?

 

[Woodmatt]

There have been various comment on this and other posts on this forum about using MDF to strop.Should I save my money,not buy a strop but just dig out an offcut of MDF and pre load that with honing paste or similar.

 

[bugbear]

There have been various comment on this and other posts on this forum about using MDF to strop.Should I save my money,not buy a strop but just dig out an offcut of MDF and pre load that with honing paste or similar.

Opinions vary.

See this poll, and various recent threads...

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There have been various comment on this and other posts on this forum about using MDF to strop.Should I save my money,not buy a strop but just dig out an offcut of MDF and pre load that with honing paste or similar.

I'm with BB on this - opinions vary!

It's probably one of those things you have to try for yourself, and work out what works for you. Fortunately, it's not an expensive experiment - a scrap of MDF (or even hardwood) is probably no cost at all, and a leather strop need not be pricey, either. Salvage any old piece of leather, or buy a scrap off Ebay if needs be. Glue it to a piece of wood, and off you go. Try it without any dressing, with a coating of very mild abrasive (mine is jeweller's rouge), and see which works best for you. Some of the old craftsmen used to 'strop' a honed tool across the palm of their hand (skin is a form of leather!); this works - I've tried - but do keep the skin taut and concentrate on what you're doing!

Don't make a big deal of it, though - reading some forum entries, they'd have you believe that only leather from particular anatomical parts of certain animals, tanned by naked Peruvian virgins and finished under a full moon will do. Actually, almost anything will do - hence the MDF and hand palm suggestions. I suspect that leather became popular because back in the old days, it was fairly easy to obtain, and could be bent into shapes to suit gouges and the like.

 

[Corneel]

I'd go with the naked Peruvian virgins. You can't go wrong with these.

 

[Woodmatt]

Thanks Cheshirechappie,when I was apprentice many years ago the palm of the hand was the norm in the workshop.Having not been in the trade for some 35 years in the intervening years sharpening seems to have become an amazingly complicated subject as do many other aspects of woodworking.

 

[Jacob]

....sharpening seems to have become an amazingly complicated subject ...

It's been "monetized" big time.
Persuade people it's difficult and you can sell them all sorts of stuff. A lot of the stuff actually does make it difficult and kinda proves the point :roll: and they buy even more stuff.

 

[D_W]

I'm going to make a non-monetized ridiculous video showing the freehand method on sharpening stones from $1 to $400 this weekend.

I won't keyword spam David Charlesworth (I am against videos on youtube that mention someone else just to get views), but I will sharpen the same iron four times to a large wire edge (to simulate what would happen with wear), and anyone buying into the fact that a guide is cheaper or more efficient can compare david's video sharpening anything (I will be sharpening a #4).

And after each sharpening, i will compare the surface finish on the quartered face of a piece of cherry (something that doesn't like to take that bright of a finish) and measure the shaving thickness. The point made will be that sharpening with a $1 stone and a follow up piece of MDF with compound takes almost no difference in time vs. really expensive stones. I'll leave the guide sharpening to someone else to show, though I have the equipment to do it.

Monetized is right, but the stuff sold these days as sharpeng equipment is not interesting. Interesting is a piece of rock that comes out of the ground that is ideally suited for steel that is ideally suited for blades. The coincidence that something seems to exist in nature on every continent that brings a blade sharp, and rewards touch from the user. That is interesting.

Not interesting is a progression of 4 synthetic stones that need to be flattened all the time, and a bunch of gadgetry that will no longer be the "it" gadgetry when the next thing is introduced.

I will make an attempt to make a simplest case starting point for anyone who wants to convert to the type of method I'm talking about.

 

[nabs]

congratulations Bugbear you appear to have organized the first ever light hearted and good humoured discussion on sharpening in the history of t'internet

I am a #5 (copied from Peter Sellers, at least that is what I thought he was doing anyway!)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It ain't over til the fat lady sings ...

 

[iNewbie]

Jacob, you're on...

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I'd go with the naked Peruvian virgins. You can't go wrong with these.

They are difficult to get hold of, though. Probably because of all the tanning oils.

 

[MIGNAL]

I'm going to make a non-monetized ridiculous video showing the freehand method on sharpening stones from $1 to $400 this weekend.

I won't keyword spam David Charlesworth (I am against videos on youtube that mention someone else just to get views), but I will sharpen the same iron four times to a large wire edge (to simulate what would happen with wear), and anyone buying into the fact that a guide is cheaper or more efficient can compare david's video sharpening anything (I will be sharpening a #4).

And after each sharpening, i will compare the surface finish on the quartered face of a piece of cherry (something that doesn't like to take that bright of a finish) and measure the shaving thickness. The point made will be that sharpening with a $1 stone and a follow up piece of MDF with compound takes almost no difference in time vs. really expensive stones. I'll leave the guide sharpening to someone else to show, though I have the equipment to do it.

Monetized is right, but the stuff sold these days as sharpeng equipment is not interesting. Interesting is a piece of rock that comes out of the ground that is ideally suited for steel that is ideally suited for blades. The coincidence that something seems to exist in nature on every continent that brings a blade sharp, and rewards touch from the user. That is interesting.

Not interesting is a progression of 4 synthetic stones that need to be flattened all the time, and a bunch of gadgetry that will no longer be the "it" gadgetry when the next thing is introduced.

I will make an attempt to make a simplest case starting point for anyone who wants to convert to the type of method I'm talking about.

You've got to beat 1 min. 50. The time that DC takes to sharpen a chisel. Don't know why he thinks it's fast or faster than Sellers (it isn't).

 

[No skills]

I'd go with the naked Peruvian virgins. You can't go wrong with these.

They are difficult to get hold of, though. Probably because of all the tanning oils.

Don't think I'd want some Peruvian virgins oiled nut sack rubbing on my strop.

 

[D_W]

I'm going to make a non-monetized ridiculous video showing the freehand method on sharpening stones from $1 to $400 this weekend.

I won't keyword spam David Charlesworth (I am against videos on youtube that mention someone else just to get views), but I will sharpen the same iron four times to a large wire edge (to simulate what would happen with wear), and anyone buying into the fact that a guide is cheaper or more efficient can compare david's video sharpening anything (I will be sharpening a #4).

And after each sharpening, i will compare the surface finish on the quartered face of a piece of cherry (something that doesn't like to take that bright of a finish) and measure the shaving thickness. The point made will be that sharpening with a $1 stone and a follow up piece of MDF with compound takes almost no difference in time vs. really expensive stones. I'll leave the guide sharpening to someone else to show, though I have the equipment to do it.

Monetized is right, but the stuff sold these days as sharpeng equipment is not interesting. Interesting is a piece of rock that comes out of the ground that is ideally suited for steel that is ideally suited for blades. The coincidence that something seems to exist in nature on every continent that brings a blade sharp, and rewards touch from the user. That is interesting.

Not interesting is a progression of 4 synthetic stones that need to be flattened all the time, and a bunch of gadgetry that will no longer be the "it" gadgetry when the next thing is introduced.

I will make an attempt to make a simplest case starting point for anyone who wants to convert to the type of method I'm talking about.

You've got to beat 1 min. 50. The time that DC takes to sharpen a chisel. Don't know why he thinks it's fast or faster than Sellers (it isn't).

Yeah, I can beat that, of course. With all four mediums with a plane iron. None of the stones I use require flattening or pre-soaking, either, so there's that, too.

I guarantee it will be extra boring!!

 

[bugbear]

showing the freehand method

Your freehand method, perhaps.

Not "the", as this poll and thread demonstrates. It appears the number of freehand methods is matched only by the number of freehand sharpeners. Notice the number for requests for yet more options on this poll.

Keep voting everybody, early and often!

BugBear

 

[D_W]

showing the freehand method

Your freehand method, perhaps.

Not "the", as this poll and thread demonstrates. It appears the number of freehand methods is matched only by the number of freehand sharpeners. Notice the number for requests for yet more options on this poll.

Keep voting everybody, early and often!

BugBear

After my video, there will be only one!

Sharpenageddon!

 

[Jacob]

.....
You've got to beat 1 min. 50. The time that DC takes to sharpen a chisel. Don't know why he thinks it's fast or faster than Sellers (it isn't).

If a chisel is new or fresh from the grindstone it should take just a few seconds to sharpen.
Interestingly the new sharpeners are not happy with that and have invented a process they sometimes call "prepping a chisel", which wastes many minutes, if not hours, and in the hands of a beginner can spoil some good tools.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Fresh off the grinder, a 1" chisel (in PM-V11 steel) will take me under 30 seconds to hone. Only a few strokes per stone are necessary with a maximum hollow (to the edge of the blade).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTe ... SetUp.html

As the hollow recedes with re-sharpening, so the time taken to hone increases. I will re-fresh the hollow if sharpening requires about 20 strokes on each stone.

For me, the advantage of honing on the hollow is that the bevel angle is maintained. The disadvantage is that the amount of steel to be honed is double that compared to when one lifts the end and creates a secondary bevel. However, the secondary bevel also increases the angle of the bevel, and subsequent sharpenings are likely o see this increased again. Within a short while the primary bevel will need to be re-ground to re-estalish its angle. Swings and roundabouts.

Regards from Perth

Derek