England

[cutting42]

I cannot remember who said it but a phrase comes to mind which I have always agreed with.

"A Nationalist wraps the Flag around themselves .... whilst a Patriot wraps themselves around the Flag"

Quite nice and probably someone very famous.

 

[head clansman]

hi all


well i back two flag here , both equally the scottish and the union jack my ancestors heritage which goes back to 12 the century and i'm english and bloody proud off it , but I'll always back the scots as well . ,

I like to see both flags a flying anywhere The rest of britain (whatever that word supposed to mean) to me that the word which should be removed not the english. They can call there selfs by there own nationality and quite rightly so, well i'm english and want to remain so. up the crappy politians .

live and let live I'm english .hc

 

[Jenx]

You know what I've always found a little 'odd' ? ...
not directly connected to 'flags' but a similar 'general' subject ..

Up here ( Scotland ), we have a Scottish Parliament ( a complete waste of time, and money IMHO, but thats another matter ),
Wales has its Assembly - cant comment on the validity or effectiveness of it.. but its 'there' ...

Both in the name of 'devolution' ...

so if we 'get' these so-called 'facilities' ....
how come the English don't get their own 'bespoke' one, and how come the English nation isn't more up in arms about it ?
( perhaps even worse that you have to endure that Gonk of a Jock Buffoon at the top of the current political tree in westminster )..

So why no 'English' parliament / assembly ?

Whats good for the goose etc etc ... surely ?

 

[p111dom]

I think because in England it's a none subject. People in England just don't think like that. In Scotland, 'Scotland' and 'Scottishness' is drummed into the population constantly. Everythings Scottish. 'The Scottish Daily Mail, Bank of Scotland, Scottish beef' etc etc. England doesn't have the 'English Daily Mail' (it does have the bank of England though but that's something different). Its just a none subject, not worth bothering about, doesn't matter. It's the part I dislike about Scotland the most. It not that I'm against the population being nationalistic or patriotic (depending on you point of view) but when a country get so obsessed with 'nationalness' it becomes increasingly inward looking. Its kind of like France being so defensive of its culture and language to the point that they legislate to stop radio stations playing too many songs in English. Personally I wouldn't think a Frenchman less French if he was listening to the Beatles. A Scotsman is still a Scotsman whether he wraps a Saltire around himself or not. They just don't seem to realise that. That said the North East of England has a similar inward looking culture. Whenever I go back there I see all the same faces of people that never left. These are the high achievers too, the A grade students at school. I couldn't wait to get out and see the world and have lived all over the UK. My worry is for my kids. I certainly want them to be as outward looking as possible and will encourage them to be so at every oportunity.

 

[Jenx]

Hi P111dom ... Yes, Agree with you 100% there !.
And also, yes .. I think you're right about the 'non-importance' of the nationalistic attachment down south.. thats a good explanation, I think.

Cheers 8)

 

[Digit]

English people don't complain 'cos they don't exist!
The last paperwork I had from HMG listed, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Ireland, British or other.
Not knowing a country called British I simply filled it in as 'Anglo Saxon' and left it to them!

Roy.

 

[Loz_S]

English people don't complain 'cos they don't exist!...snip...

That's just what the politicians would like you to think, isn't it?

My impression of the English is of a people who have had their culture and history ignored and repressed since the end of the Great War simply because politicians are scared of what English Nationalism could do.

Britishness is encouraged and taught in schools whilst English history is ignored. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to promote being Welsh and British or Scottish and British, and yet English companies, institutions or its people are 'merely' British.

The political elite have managed to engender a feeling that being English is racist and non inclusive, which in today's PC world is just Not Done.

 

[Digit]

That's just what the politicians would like you to think, isn't it?

That seems to be the case I think.

Roy.

 

[p111dom]

I sort of agree. In the end I think the UK is and should continue to be a progressive state. When we were at school we were taught about the war of the Roses which while interesting enough (especially in the North East as its the origional reason for rivalry between Sunderland and Newcastle) I can see little relevence in that for the kids of today. Later on we did a lot of 20th Century History. WWI and II, Hitler, Stalin etc which had real relevence in explaining the sturcutre of Europe, the cold war etc in the 80's. While we shoudn't forget the lessons learned from those historical events surely the emphasis today should be explaing the historical reasons for problems in the Middle East. An yet up here at least the schools are Scottish history obsessed meaning people are always looking backwards. The anomocity aginst the English never seems to fade away and I'm sure it's because of this. I genuinly have met kids who know all about the Battle at Stirling Bridge but don't know who Hitler was. That's just madness! Is it correct to say that England is loosing its cultural past? Perhaps you could argue that the English are just more willing to let go of cultural traits which have become out of date. I for one wouldn't feel any less English if Morrice dancing died out. I'm not sure the same could be said in Scotland if kilts dissapeared though. I think its a problem that will be on the increase with the SNP in charge but I'm willing to wait and see.

 

[Digit]

History tells us who we are.

Roy.

 

[p111dom]

edit

 

[p111dom]

History tells us who we are.

Roy.

No history tell us who we were.

 

[Evergreen]

There are many versions of this statement but here, as far as I can tell, is the original:

"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it" - George Santayana 1863 - 1952

 

[Digit]

I'm familiar with that Evergreen but I disagree Dom, with no past you are nothing IMO.
History defines your language, your culture, in many cases your religion even your dress and skin colour.

Roy.

 

[p111dom]

I would say that evolution results in all those things not harking back to history. To say that your history defines your culture is a worrying concept. I don't think that all Germans in general are faschist Nazis just because of historical events in the middle of the last century. Nore do I argree with Britains involvement in the salve trade or the way we ravaged Africa. It wasn't myself who did though so I don't feel like I have to appologise for it. It was in the past and many generations ago. Is it not correct to move on as opposed to dwell on it. As for "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it" its a nice philosophical concept but again simply not realistic hence WWII followed WWI only 21 years later and 11 years after the first Gulf war we find ourselves there again. If anything the second gulf war was the result of looking back at the past too much. A "we didn't finish the job" mentality leading us to make the same mistakes again. If we'd have just let the past lie, perhaps things would be better.

 

[Digit]

My statement Dom does not require harking on anything, I feel no guilt for what happened after Culloden, nor for the slave trade, neither do I hold the German people responsible for the camps.
Neither do I attempt to deny that these things happened, if 'moving on' requires that they should be written out of a country's history I would not consider that as 'moving on', rather a case of misrepresentation.
The first thing dictators seem to do is to re-write history to their own ends.

Roy.

 

[yo_chuci]

English people don't complain 'cos they don't exist!
The last paperwork I had from HMG listed, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Ireland, British or other.
Not knowing a country called British I simply filled it in as 'Anglo Saxon' and left it to them!

Roy.

agreed... i always tick other and put english... i have had people say that i can't put that and that i should have ticked british. i asked why scottish etc was there etc (and you can see where the conv went) at the end i got a 'oh yeah... never thought about it like that...'

also put jedi down as religion on the census. does that just make me sad?

 

[Digit]

I have no problem with British, other than when it's used to replace English.
Frankly I often wonder why second generation immigrants so describe themselves though.
I'm a third generation immigrant whose ancestry is Dutch, English, Irish. I was born in England and I'm English.
My three year old grandson was born here in Wales of English parents and for my money he's Welsh.

Roy.

 

[Jenx]

:lol: :lol: Roy, if he was born in China, would that make him Chinese. ?
:lol: :lol:

Comedy aside .. its a valid thought ? :wink:

 

[Digit]

Yes, not ethnically I agree, but by nationality, certainly. Remember what the Duke of Wellington said about Jesus though? :lol:

Roy.