Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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Well it will be interesting for certain to see where it goes. I am not against progress, I am against forced progress that only benefits small sections of society and penalises the masses which is what I am seeing at the moment.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I don’t readily recognise the situation as you portray it Mr R
The way I look at it is the overall benefit of successfully moving away from ICE is shared by the rich and poor alike - a better environment. We have 8/9 years to get there and technology is advancing .... the deadline is a nudge to get industry to take up the challenge. In that time (and beyond as the secondhand market will remain) we can all continue to use ICE if we choose. I would expect nearer the time whoever is in power will be mindful of the need to that those with lower incomes don’t get left behind.
That's a fair comment, I don't know what the future will bring, I am just point out observations based on my personal circumstances and those of the people that live around me. If you live in an affluent area where everyone has a driveway for instance, the idea of charging your car at home not only seems like a sensible thing to do, but actually is more appealing than going out to the petrol station. If you are retired or work from home or an office nearby, the drawbacks of car charging and travelling for work don't readily make themselves apparent. I am just trying to put forward situations which some may not have thought about, I had said it before that the general membership here seems to occupy a certain social class that is not very representative of the majority of the populous, threads like these help us to learn from each other.
I took a walk yesterday afternoon around my area and along the very long street which I live on. I paid attention to how many houses actually had a reasonable opportunity to charge their vehicle at their house, either a driveway or garage. I had estimated in a previous post that it was approx 10% that could do so. I actually surprised myself in how wrong I was, the number is far fewer, less than 5%. Most people have to park on the street, a small number have garages in blocks and there are (non allocated) spaces in communal car park, but very few people have a private driveway.
clogs
just can't decide
Mr Swanwoo......
those at the top running the UK have no interest in low income families unless it helps win them votes....
Unless u look at the last silly person running the Lab party.....thick or what.......?
Mind if Lab got back in we'd be forced to drive an EV Trabant....heaven forbid......
One of the main reasons for getting out of the UK.....
The Uk has so much to offer but those grabbers at the top just mess it up....
As far as used cars go here, a 10 year old vehicle with upwards of 200,000klms will still fetch close to 1/2 the new price....
no chance for a used EV here at a reasonable price.....
Cant see the Taliban running a fleet of EV Toyota pick-up's with a 50 cal on the back....CAN YOU....
Mad all mad.......hahaha.....
those at the top running the UK have no interest in low income families unless it helps win them votes....
Unless u look at the last silly person running the Lab party.....thick or what.......?
Mind if Lab got back in we'd be forced to drive an EV Trabant....heaven forbid......
One of the main reasons for getting out of the UK.....
The Uk has so much to offer but those grabbers at the top just mess it up....
As far as used cars go here, a 10 year old vehicle with upwards of 200,000klms will still fetch close to 1/2 the new price....
no chance for a used EV here at a reasonable price.....
Cant see the Taliban running a fleet of EV Toyota pick-up's with a 50 cal on the back....CAN YOU....
Mad all mad.......hahaha.....
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Hmm, sounds a bit socialistic to me!
Re EVs not only would huge swathes of the population not have home access to charging but a most of them don't buy cars until they are 6 or more years old and fallen in value.
I think mass transport by personal EV is just a motor industry fantasy and it isn't going to happen for a long time, if ever.
If it depends on govt subsidy then investing in EV electrified rail, tram, trolley bus, looks much more cost effective and completely sidesteps the big battery problem
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Agree
Not really - you just spend too much time reading the Daily Mail.
Those at the top running the UK have spent a vast amount of money, time and effort brain-washing the population. They had to; there was a real threat of an alternative govt and the 2017 election had scared them s***less.
Scarily successful - you just have to say the word "Corbyn" to a lot of people and you get a conditioned reflex reaction of shock & horror. When you ask them why they can't really explain - in fact they just get angrier!
https://www.accessscience.com/conte...lex, also known,elicits some kind of reaction.
Cooper
Established Member
This is a fascinating thread with a range of positive and negative attitudes to EV and sustainability. It has struck me that a lot of the worry from some is the questions of range and cost, that is to some extent true for me. It is really a problem of town vs country. If you live in a town the chances are that you have a good mobile connection, a choice of high-speed broad band, street lighting and access to reasonable public transport. All these things come because the investment is worthwhile as there is a large market close together. Charging facilities will follow. If nearly everyone in towns and cities (who don't regularly make long journeys), I think about 80% of the population went to EV and those out in the sticks carried on as they are for the time being, we would go a long way towards reducing CO2 emissions and improve air quality. Also the price of secondhand EV vehicles (I guess what most of us here buy) would fall and make them affordable. This issue is a bit like how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Exactly my point. The conditioned reflex reaction. Absolutely no point in arguing that you are wrong on both points.
It's a real issue and it's how people are now controlled, as forecast in 1984 etc.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
That’s an odd view in my opinion. If politicians disenfranchise the less well off they get voted out. In practice it matters not if they are motivated by personal belief or a sense of survival - ie winning votes
There’s also not exactly a flood of people looking to get out of the UK and it remains one of the better places to live in the world.
Cooper
Established Member
If that's so what's all the fuss about Red, Orange and Green countries about then?
If you aren't careful this thread will end up in the contentious zone!!
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Sorry I don’t get your point and I’m definitely not looking to bring anything to do with pandemics into the mix.
I was responding to the point in the quoted thread that the state of the UK meant it was worth leaving.
JobandKnock
Amateur curmudgeon
You almost never do trade mileage with no load (tool kit is a load AFAIK), so the range is never going to be 400 miles. And as a site carpenter my tool and fixings load is 600 to 800 kg in a Caddy (fairly common vehicle size and load), making an F150 good for maybe 150 to 230 miles fully laden (and assuming I'm not carrying a couple of 80kg passengers and their overnight luggage as well). And all this is before I turn the heater on to warm the vehicle up (did I mention that I live in the North of England?). So in winter I wouldn't even get to Carlisle...
... in the real world, that is
I get the impression that Rorschach is in a similar position to myself. I am a tradesman. It pays reasonably well at the moment, but the construction industry over the.last 20 years hasn't been a wonderful place to earn a living at times with trades rates slashed to little better than labour's rates immediatrly after the 2007 crash (I'm now back to bit above where I was in 2006) - always assuming that you could find a job, that is. In other words if you turn round and tell me that I'll have to shell out approaching £60k for a 1 tonne EV van with a paltry 200 mile (or less) real world range, I and many others will struggle to raise the money for something which at present is not fit for purpose. It's that simple.
Then there's the bright suggestion that maybe people like me should change our jobs to earn more money so that we can buy the vehicle that presumably we wouldn't need if we changed our jobs...
Some people find a niche in life where they are good at what they do and get job satisfaction from doing it - it isn't always about earning loads of money - and what I do for a living earns a wage which is pretty much the same per hour here in the NW as in the Midlands or elsewhere other than London. So the liklihood I could earn a lot more is extremely small
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Your raise a good point. I'll ask the guys doing the project how they propose to fit around it - I guess they are aware as its quite a large project. I suppose is gas gets eliminated its one less utility to worry about.
Its not just the smog that we have eliminated. Most advances in technology have unexpected consequences that need to be finessed as they emerge. We are getting better at anticipating them as we have learned a lot about the chemistry of earth and climate science. A lot of product development over the past 50 years has been to improve environmental issues.
Its a mugs game prediction the future as things don't progress linearly, we adapt to issues as they emerge. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say.
In 1894 a huge horse manure crisis emerged as London's streets were covered in dung, urine and dead horses there being 50,000+ horses on the streets and the London Times predicted the streets would be 9 foot deep in dung by 1944. The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894
In the 1970s lead pollution was a serious issue. Its now believed that lead poisoning contributed to a crime wave as mental heath suffered. The lead crime hypothesis.
It was argued by the petroleum industry that emiminateng lead would put up cost and they had a lot of capital assets tied up in ethyl lead production. However after an initial investment and cost jump the replacements soon fell in price.
Personally from everything I've seen we have the technology to replace fossil fuels. Solar Wind and Nuclear all work well and are cost effective. I'm not sure why you have your doubts on nuclear and wind, apart from the known hazards associated with nuclear of course. Modern nuclear seems a good solution, its actually a clean fuels compared to the alternatives when you do a full life cycle analysis from mineral extraction to Kwhrs delivered. Solar and wind, both have dirty begging's (ie manufacturing the assets) and dirty end of life - disposal, as does nuclear. Its the long running time in the middle that pays back well for these three technologies.
This graphic is from a work programme looking at making the next generation of wind turbines in a more sustainable way. That is reducing the carbon footprint of manufacture and end of life and going for a circular economy model with recycling and reclamation of the materials. Naturally consumers want this new technology at no extra cost.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
My doubts about nuclear are simple;
1 If capacity is to increase by say 50 times then the risk factor has to decrease by 50 times to maintain current levels of risk.
2 It makes us dependent on a very high level technical knowledge and skill, high levels of political stability, but highly vulnerable to anything which threatens these, such as another nastier virus, let alone the disruptions likely from climate change itself.
1 If capacity is to increase by say 50 times then the risk factor has to decrease by 50 times to maintain current levels of risk.
2 It makes us dependent on a very high level technical knowledge and skill, high levels of political stability, but highly vulnerable to anything which threatens these, such as another nastier virus, let alone the disruptions likely from climate change itself.
That's a poor hypothesis. The breakdown of the family and increased drug trade coincided with the rise and an enormous increase in enforcement and imprisonment coincided with the decline. Just because one bar looks like it marches doesn't mean the two have anything to do with each other.
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