Chisel gets dull whilst working up through the grits

[Jacob]

An expensive diamond plate for flattening would be better used for direct sharpening IMHO. Cut out the middleman and dump the stone!
In a moment of madness (and it was a special offer) I bought 3 Ezelap 3x8 stones, which would cost about £240 now - the price of 10 Norton combi stones! Diamond for sharpening only - not for wasting on flattening cheap stones

 

[Adam W.]

Well it was just before children came along! Out lad was 26 yesterday so now it really would be about the belt leather! Oohh are we allowed to have banter & jokes like this?!

I'm not sure anymore.

 

[D_W]

Diamond hones used on stones only basically last forever. Steel pulls diamonds off of them.

One diamond hone vs three that will wear out. For 4 times as much money. Sounds like a real bargain jacob.

 

[scooby]

Oohh are we allowed to have banter & jokes like this?!

I think it should be mandatory, especially in sharpening threads.

 

[Daniel2]

It's always comforting to have a sharpening thread going on, at any particular time.

 

[Blackswanwood]

@Jacob

Your post at 8:50 purports to quote me but I don’t recognise the words and when I click on the link it goes to a comment I made about the offside decision in the football yesterday.

Any idea how this has happened?

 

[Jacob]

@Jacob

Your post at 8:50 purports to quote me but I don’t recognise the words and when I click on the link it goes to a comment I made about the offside decision in the football yesterday.

View attachment 110639

Any idea how this has happened?

Oops. No sorry I've no idea. I had a look back but couldn't see how/why. Maybe I was editing and got the wires crossed. I've edited it back to "sometimewoodworker"

 

[baldkev]

Maybe we could stage a virtual boxing match? I bet 50 on d-w

 

[D_W]

Difficult to tell if that’s an attempt at humour or just an amazingly arrogant thing to say.

It's a humorous observation. The fine workers I've met generally don't tolerate crudely sharpened tools, or their fine bits are done after the edges are used (e.g., I know a guitar maker who makes fine guitars, and uses handtools a bit, but he does all of his final fitting with router shimming, sanding finagles, etc).

It's misleading to tell someone who wants to do a lot of work (including fine work or finish fitting) to suggest:
1) that getting a fine edge is a waste of time (it's less effort in the long run)
2) it takes a long time to do it

It actually takes less time and effort to do it as well as possible, but it does require some understanding of what's going on at the edge.

A quick example - what's the difference in a stanley #4s longevity if you finish with a 4000 grit equivalent diamond hone vs. 1 micron diamonds or an inexpensive compound bar on wood (substitute the bar for stropping, same amount of time or less and never a failure to get sharpness). 50%. The latter edge will plane 1500 feet for 1000 that the former will do, but be easier to use the entire time

Does it matter if someone is not doing much finish work with hand tools, no much rough work? Probably not. When someone in that category gives advice to someone who wants to do those things, it's bad advice. It takes some experience to give it and blanket comments about what's needed or what's not with little experience aren't helpful to beginners. Cosman strongly recommending at one point that beginners should get the 30k shapton - a terrible suggestion. Really, there's no functional reason for that stone at all other than pleasure to some people. For someone else new who wants to work by hand and potentially carve, the strong assertions that going past an india stone is something pros never do - just as bad in the other direction.

Telling someone who sharpens once a month that they shouldn't use a guide? Just stupid.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I sharpen things probably about once a month, but I sharpen several plane irons and chisels at the same time. I work from a chair, being deficient to the tune of two in the lower limb department, so work at a less than ideal height.
I learned to freehand (quickly and easily, one thing J. and I agree on) when I was about twelve and don't use a guide because it suits ME. I use water stones, because it suits ME. I sharpen only to 1200 grit (90% of the time) because because it suits ME.
Anyone notice a recurring theme there?

 

[Adam W.]

Well it was just before children came along! Out lad was 26 yesterday so now it really would be about the belt leather! Oohh are we allowed to have banter & jokes like this?!

Maybe we could stage a virtual boxing match? I bet 50 on d-w

He's on ignore with plenty of folk, so it would be a rather one sided affair.

 

[Jacob]

I sharpen things probably about once a month, but I sharpen several plane irons and chisels at the same time. I work from a chair, being deficient to the tune of two in the lower limb department, so work at a less than ideal height.
I learned to freehand (quickly and easily, one thing J. and I agree on) when I was about twelve and don't use a guide because it suits ME. I use water stones, because it suits ME. I sharpen only to 1200 grit (90% of the time) because because it suits ME.
Anyone notice a recurring theme there?

Who is this M.E. whereof you speak? Why doesn't he use oil stones?

 

[Argus]

Meanwhile, back in the land of sharpening, despite all the talk of free-hand stroking, (with all its rhythmic pleasures), jiggery, stones or diamond plates, there has been no mention - not a jot - about LUBRICATION.

Here goes, then, what to use in a civilised process.........oil? water? window-cleaning fluid? .......... your own secret formulation?

 

[Adam W.]

I sharpen things probably about once a month, but I sharpen several plane irons and chisels at the same time. I work from a chair, being deficient to the tune of two in the lower limb department, so work at a less than ideal height.
I learned to freehand (quickly and easily, one thing J. and I agree on) when I was about twelve and don't use a guide because it suits ME. I use water stones, because it suits ME. I sharpen only to 1200 grit (90% of the time) because because it suits ME.
Anyone notice a recurring theme there?

Yes, you are Michael Gove and I claim my £5.

 

[scooby]

He's on ignore with plenty of folk,

Serious question, how do you know that?

 

[doctor Bob]

The most curious thing is, I would have thought you need to make things to practice sharpening skills.
Just saying. For some it's talk the talk ............

I really don't give two hoots whether my guys freehand or jig or beltsander sharpen or diamond v stone, they are all very good at it and quick. They also make stuff every day, day in day out, rather than "talk about making stuff".
A little secret............................. the internet is full of bullshitters..............

 

[D_W]

He's on ignore with plenty of folk, so it would be a rather one sided affair.

Usually with people who give evasive answers or with insecurity problems. And not even intentionally triggered on my part - just legitimate questions. Why people have ego issues and can't answer questions (because they're afraid that something will be known about them that will hurt their ego to share) is really beyond me.

 

[D_W]

Serious question, how do you know that?

Because two people shared that. Staying off of ignore lists at the cost of meaningful discussions isn't really my goal, though. Adam made some claim of using a scrub plane and the use of it and that he works cubic meters of wood, I asked him if he worked wet wood, which apparently is most of what he does, but his response "not always". I asked him why he couldn't provide answers that would give people context since it's kind of important, and he threw a fit (it took a while to get to point where he still never admitted working wet wood, just said "not always" to dry. I think he works mostly wet wood, but it's a secret). I didn't gather why it was a difficult thing to discuss, and still don't.

Apparently, on forums, straightforward discussion is against most peoples' personal TOS.

 

[wolfrace]

Does anyone here have the ability to ‘lock’ their wrists at the right angle for sharpening, like you see on a lot of tutorials? I have to say mine don’t, they just seem to wobble about I get by without always using a guide but have to resort to it sometimes to re-establish angles. One thing I’ve found out re. sharpening is to have a dedicated area to it, so you don’t have to faff around clearing stuff out of the way, walk to sharpening area, sharpen, back to bench and start taking end grain shavings off cast iron , courtesy of your .25 micron diamond paste

 

[doctor Bob]

Here goes, then, what to use in a civilised process.........oil? water? window-cleaning fluid? .......... your own secret formulation?

Unicorn sperm, quite difficult to find the secretive animal, mind you that's the easiest part...........


am I in trouble with the wokies?