Can't find the water valve in the street. Any ideas?

[evildrome]

I've got a dicey main water valve in my house.

25 years ago I shut it off to change the kitchen tap and when I switched it back on, it leaked pretty badly.

I called a plumber and asked for it to be changed but its "lead" apparently (or the piping is) and plumbers don't do lead anymore.

The irony...

Anyway, the plumber did "something" to stop it leaking and after that I just shut it off in the street.

Fast forward about 20 years since I had to shut it off and I go out into the street, locate the cover, open it, wet vac the crap out and... no valve.

That's a blanking cap for a test point.

The water shut off valve top is a flat square bar about 2" long by 1/2" wide.

I know this because the key I made and used 25 years ago, is sized for that type of valve top.

If you unscrew that cap you just get mains water pressure in the face.

Its definitely a cap, the more you unscrew it the more water leaks out & when you screw it down it comes to a stop and there's no leakage.

So its a cap, not a valve.

I've definitely turned the water off at the mains before.

If there's another access point, I can't see it.

 

[flying haggis]

ask your water company how you turn off the water from the street

do you have a meter?

 

[HappyHacker]

Apart from the dangers of a lead water supply pipe you can get compression lead to copper adaptors: https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/lead-pipe-fittings.html is the first one I found on the web.

In the past I have found water companies helpful and they have sent someone out to find the supply valve for me. In one case I had not dug deep enough through the mud and stones at the bottom of the access point.

 

[eribaMotters]

I thought the standard set up was a 12 bar main down the road that branched out to your meter hole/stopcock with a restrictor down to 3.5 bar? on it. To me it looks like the square cap would be where a meter would be fitted or the stopcock .
As neither is fitted I'd contact your water company and ask them where the street side isolator/stopcock is.

Colin

 

[AJB Temple]

If you are not metered, then think twice, as they may take the opportunity to fit a meter.

 

[Cabinetman]

Dowsing is easy and I’ve found water pipes with ease in the past, just keep walking across the pipe and mark the position, start at the house where you think it emerges to the outside and go from there. You could practice on the pipe you know about.
All you need is 2 Bic pen plastic tubes and 2wire coat hangers. Shout if you need more info.
Yes I know, nobody believes it, but some water companies use them.
Ian

 

[eribaMotters]

If you are not metered, then think twice, as they may take the opportunity to fit a meter.

I'm a bit lost on that one as I do not know anybody worse off on a meter. I would not have an un-metered supply. We are a retired couple who on a weekly basis have seemed to inherit a lot of washing for our son, partner and baby, so looking more like a family useage. We live in Devon which has amongst the highest rates in the country. When we moved to the area South-West Water initially linked an estimated direct debit to our rateable value and had us paying £45 a month until our meter readings showed our actual consumption.
Our standing order is now £14:50 for combined water and sewerage. When we lived on Merseyside it was about £12.
I would be on the phone to your water company and start a meaningful conversation on how to go forwards with a meter. In our two previous homes, in different counties, we had lead mains. Both companies upon realising this waved the charge for fitting a meter. In one house we ran a new mains which they then connected for free.

Colin

 

[ChaiLatte]

Our standing order is now £14:50 for combined water and sewerage.

It may not apply to you, but if you can prove your rainwater does not go into the sewer, you can reduce your bill.

The water companies only replace lead up to the stop tap/meter (the one the OP cannot find). After that, it is your problem.

If it is a long way from the stop tap to the house wall, moling the new pipe in is a good method as surface disruption is limited to two holes.

The photo the OP shows has the suspected tap location in the road. That seems unusual/incorrect to me. At worst, it should be in the footpath or on your property.

 

[Chrispy]

I would suspect that that is where your supply is tapped off from the main as it seems to be copper there so newish work and then your stop valve has been moved to the other spot labeled some sort of drainage access, as surely that would be a manhole sized cover.

 

[Spectric]

I cannot imagine any water company puting your isolation valve in the road, that is just stupid and even worse if you have a meter as some guy will need to read it occasionally and if in the road they would expect some form of traffic control whilst doing so. If it is not on the pavement then take a look around your garden near the boundary as that is where they used to be put, often at the bottom of a clay pipe with a lid .

 

[Distinterior]

I cannot imagine any water company puting your isolation valve in the road, that is just stupid and even worse if you have a meter as some guy will need to read it occasionally and if in the road they would expect some form of traffic control whilst doing so. If it is not on the pavement then take a look around your garden near the boundary as that is where they used to be put, often at the bottom of a clay pipe with a lid .

I agree with Spectric......Its highly unlikely that your outside isolation valve is in the highway.....I've never seen it in my 40 odd years working on peoples houses.

 

[Bingy man]

There is an odd shut of valve used in my area by 7 Trent, it allows them to fit a water meter in ghe pavement or drive . To echo the above the stop tap will not be in the road , look at the other houses in your street. If they all have a water stop tap box plastic or cast iron then yours will be the same . 25 yrs of crud has partially buried it . Dig and scrape and you will find it . I’ve just replaced a lead supply and it was really easy process to follow- 7trent will do a free connection to their main if register it . Obviously you install the mdpe main (min 25mm) to their spec and once they inspect it they book in a free connection. But for a simple fix if it’s damaged your water supplier will have to replace the stop tap at their cost . Upstream of that stop tap is your responsibility. Should you go for a new main id avoid moling as any damage to other services and your responsible ( gas water electricity cctv etc ..

Edit the nut you are referring to is I think the same as the 2 pictures before the pic of the stop tap key . So keep digging or scraping-watch out for shards of glass etc
2nd edit it’s a 1/4 turn type valve but they can be very tight ..I’ll try to find the link because I can’t remember the direction for off ..

 

[Bingy man]

Found it - pretty sure this is what you have

 

[Old.bodger]

Have you actually lifted that second cover and cleaned it out?

 

[niall Y]

I worked with a colleague who had encountered a similar problem. He was trying to replace the stop-cock in a property and he could not find where to shut off the supply outside.so he decided to uncover a section of mains. and use a pipe freeze kit. And, it all worked well until a plug of ice exited the pipe, moments after the old, stop-cock was removed.

 

[Blackswanwood]

It’s not uncommon for older properties in Scotland to have a shared external stopcock. This may widen your search area and add some complication if you are turning it off.

I know someone who inadvertently switched off the water for twenty or so houses along his street …

Edited to correct typo!

 

[Richard_C]

Not just Scotland. Mrs me worked for NWW back in the 80s and 90s. A lot of older properties had lead pipe shared supply, one stop valve served a cluster of homes. There was a big drive to end that and go to copper pipe single supply, if I recall you had to pay a heavily subsidised fixed fee. Not everyone did.

So, if you have lead pipes you might still have shared supply with one stop cock for a number of homes. Maybe your water company still does conversions for a fixed price.

My personal experience is that a meter has saved me money in this and my last house, total 30 years. Water rates are based on council tax bands, so you might be worse off if there is a big family in a low rateable value home. I think water companies are obliged to install a meter if you ask for one. So asking for a meter might be the best idea.

The situation might have changed but worth asking.

 

[Blackswanwood]

It may be different in Scotland but in England you cannot be forced to move to a water meter and have the option to opt back if after (from memory) a year it is not proving advantageous.

Once my daughters left home it was a “no brainer” for us to move to one. Never could work out why they felt the need to stay in the shower so long

 

[ChaiLatte]

It may be different in Scotland but in England you cannot be forced to move to a water meter...

The rules are easy to find and not quite as simple as your one-liner would suggest:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7342/

In particular, the 'area of serious water stress' is the route/rationale many water companies are currently following.

 

[Glenhyrst]

It’s not uncommon for older properties in Scotland to have a shared external stopcock. This may widen your search area and add some complication if you are turning it off.

I know someone who inadvertently switched off the water for twenty or so houses along his street …

Edited to correct typo!

Similar episode in Leeds. Lady had a meter installed and subsequently complained about the ludicrously high bills she was getting. Turned out she was at the start of a run of pipework feeding hers and her neighbours houses.