A little truth for a change.

[deema]

And it is not just statistics, the mechanism is well understood scientifically (very unlike the peas causing divorce).

You will not find any paper that can state categorically that increased CO2 is the primary cause for the increase in temperature. What we know is increased CO2 will cause a certain level of temperature increase and that effect has already happened. Pumping a bit (say double what we have at the moment) into the atmosphere will have 6/10ths of nothing effect. The mystery at the moment is what is continuing to drive the temperature increase. Yes graphs show increased CO2 and temp. But increases CO2 or indeed methane does not explain the rising temperature.
It’s funny really as temperatures increase CO2 will be released that is at present locked up in the ground and there is damn all we can do about it. The good news is that increased CO2 is NOT driving the scale or rate of the increased temperature.

Climate change / CO2 has become a religion, anyone who isn’t a believer is considered a radical and ‘mob’ consensus rules.

I was taught that protons and neutrons were the smallest particles and that the universe began with the Big Bang. It was heresy to think otherwise. One we know isn’t true and the other is now believed to be wrong.

 

[Fitzroy]

It is very strong minded of you to be able to see outside the bubble that any industry creates.

Although I do conclude that climate change/global warming is anthropogenic in nature that was not the position of my post.

I’m doing my damndest to defend the scientific method. We seem to be moving towards a post fact, post science society. This society ‘stands on the shoulders of giants’ and science is one of these giants, to then cast it aside is disrespectful of the thousands of years of study and millions of lives of research that have help build it.

Science is often complicated and it takes time to personally involve yourself to create an informed decision. I disagree with @deema opinion, but can see he has taken the time to look at a range of evidence and make his decision so I respect his position. However, most folks are simply happy to parrot whatever viewpoint that pops into their feed and supports their existing opinion.

 

[RobinBHM]

Who make their livings from concensus - as was pointed out many times.

you mean like the "scientist" Steve Koonin in your film....who worked for BP

https://www.desmog.com/2023/11/10/f...s-climate-journalists-are-spreading-hysteria/

 

[RobinBHM]

I also remember long warm summers, also a thing we don't get anymore.

I don't care which religious denomination you belong to, either climate warming or not, and that is basically what it comes down to, do governments lie, does big business want to sell us more stuff, are there things we don't understand.
Be sceptical, question everything.
name calling and questioning the mental capacity of someone who disagrees or questions the narrative is hardly the best way to convince anyone.

but you are calling those believing in climate change are following a religion

isnt that name calling

 

[Jacob]

You will not find any paper that can state categorically that increased CO2 is the primary cause for the increase in temperature. What we know is increased CO2 will cause a certain level of temperature increase and that effect has already happened. Pumping a bit (say double what we have at the moment) into the atmosphere will have 6/10ths of nothing effect. The mystery at the moment is what is continuing to drive the temperature increase. Yes graphs show increased CO2 and temp. But increases CO2 or indeed methane does not explain the rising temperature.

In which case you should get in touch with IPCC, NASA, United Nations etc etc and tell them that the world's scientists have got it all wrong, that you know better and can and explain your reasoning.
If you are right they need to know!

 

[RobinBHM]

You will not find any paper that can state categorically that increased CO2 is the primary cause for the increase in temperature

there's this one

"Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total Greenhouse Gases and GMTA. Specifically, it is confirmed that the former, especially CO2, are the main causal drivers of the recent warming"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4761980/

 

[RobinBHM]

80 very worthwhile minutes.

I can't get the gif to work, but I'll get the popcorn out.

its an opinion piece not a piece of scientific work

It might provide a superficial convincing argument, but its not evidence of any kind

who funded the film?

 

[RobinBHM]

A Green New Shine for a Tired Playbook​

“Climate the Movie” portrays today’s climate denier agenda by rehashing the same old fossil fuel talking points and trolling the left.

Climate the Movie represents a new interpretation of an old climate denial playbook that remains characterized by a determination to do whatever it takes to preserve the world’s dependence on fossil fuels.

https://www.desmog.com/2024/03/21/c...ion-heartland-institute-cfact-climate-denial/

 

[deema]

Personally I believe the planet is getting warmer. It is clear that the increase in CO2 is probably the main driver for rapid rate of average increase we have seen since the Industrial Revolution. However, the continuing increase in CO2 does not explain or can it indeed cause the continued rise in temperature. @RobinBHM I agree with the paper you posted, but what it does not state or look at is what is causing the continued temperature rise.
I suspect urbanisation probably has now a far greater effect than any increase in CO2. Cities trap heat and prevent the earth cooling.
We also know that the tilt of the earth and the orbit around the sun are now both in the warming phase and will remain so for about the next 10,000 years. We are moving out of an ice age, as this is defined by the earths tilt / orbit which is why they occur cyclic and are predictable.

Again, personally I believe it’s caused by a combination of many things that are coming together all at once.

The real question is whether the increase in global temperatures will be sufficient to place the world at a level that is incompatible with human life. The problem is nobody knows.

 

[RupertV]

And the ULEZ, lets not forget to rage at the ULEZ.

and the tidal wave of immigrants

 

[Jacob]

............. the continuing increase in CO2 does not explain or can it indeed cause the continued rise in temperature.

Yes it does, both. You need to read a bit more widely.

@RobinBHM I agree with the paper you posted, but what it does not state or look at is what is causing the continued temperature rise.

Well read a few more then? The whole subject has been studied and researched intensively.

 

[SammyQ]

I’m well versed in Fisher and full factorial but generally used arrays as a full Taguchi practitioner. I also used to work with the FDA for the statistical analysis of life supporting medical equipment, which was an interesting experience.

Wow..fair enough.

I understand your viewpoint better now, from posts #81 and #89 and I retract my negativity from earlier. I most fully agree that it is a 'syndrome' (wrong context!), not just Carbon Dioxide; the Earth's changing albedo comes readily to mind, methane plumes in Eastern Asia, tundra thawing, et cetera, et cetera. All are contributing to warming and change; the degree of each factor as a contributor is debatable and possibly as yet, not numerically verified.

My great apprehension is the long-term effect of the hyperbolic (or perhaps, logarithmic?) increase in melting sea ice at both poles and the resultant changes in ocean currents. The Atlantic Conveyor is a particular worry.

 

[RobinBHM]

@RobinBHM I agree with the paper you posted, but what it does not state or look at is what is causing the continued temperature rise

Well is does state there is direct causality, does that not mean greenhouse gases are the cause of temperature rise?

“Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total Greenhouse Gases and GMTA. Specifically, it is confirmed that the former, especially CO2, are the main causal drivers of the recent warming"

 

[artie]

Throughout its life earth has always changed. We are driving some of this change, partly through sheer increase of numbers.

I don't think it all about the numbers.
One person living in "the west" uses up much more resources than ( pick a number and enter it here) persons living in a less industrialised poorer country.
A car, for instance, petrol or diesel, could be made to last a lifetime, it could also be made to go an awful lot further on a gallon of fuel.

For the last ten years I have been taking 2 glass jars to a local farmer weekly to have them filled with organic unpasteurised milk, He would happily provide me with prefilled plastic jars, but we both suffer the minor inconvenience.
That's 1000+ plastic jars not in land fill somewhere.

An insignificant number I know in the grand scheme of things, but if more people adopted this kind of thinking it would help.

 

[Daniel2]

The seemingly endless arrogance of our species continues to amaze me...

 

[Filament]

and the tidal wave of immigrants

This is another thing I can never understand. Most people I meet who don’t ‘believe’ in a need to address climate change are also those who think immigration is a scary idea thing that must be stopped at all costs and entirely miss the fact that all those countries where the brown people they are so afraid of live will become unlivable meaning that we will see a refugee migration toward cooler climes that is unprecedented in human history.

 

[Filament]

I’d still love to know the answer to my question.
I understand some people don’t believe all the scientists etc no matter that fact that effectively all of them agree (balance in the media has had the negative effect of making people think that opinions are split 50/50 as an interviewer will have one climate change scientist debating one climate denier scientist without mentioning that that first scientist represents 99.9% of scientists and scientists b represents .1%)
But what I struggle to understand is if you disbelieve all of that, what makes you believe some random guy on YouTube?
@philpascoe ?

 

[Keith Cocker]

It's not remotely related to climate change either, apart from the fact that the same people who disbelieve CC also rant about diversity generally. There's a strong correlation, but it could just be coincidence.
I know (old)people who scoff at CC on the grounds that they have no children or grandchildren, and so it's of no consequence to them. Weirdly, they tend to be the same people who get incandescent talking about gender diversity, which is also of little or no consequence to them.

And vote Brexit.

 

[John Brown]

And vote Brexit.

Indeed, but that does have consequences for everyone.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Indeed, but that does have consequences for everyone.

I’m in favour of a “National Reconstruction Tax” on all who voted Brexit!! Why should the rest of us pay for their mistake!!!