Thanks, Frank. I've just watched a Youtube clip on Story Sticks. Good idea to make marking out easier to see for me. My dad is 64 and doesn't need glasses, don't know where I went wrong. I do know our milkman wears enormously thick glasses, though!
Yet another english style workbench build
- Thread starter SteL
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Thanks, Frank. I've just watched a Youtube clip on Story Sticks. Good idea to make marking out easier to see for me. My dad is 64 and doesn't need glasses, don't know where I went wrong. I do know our milkman wears enormously thick glasses, though!
thetyreman
Established Member
that's looking really good, now you'll understand from now on why not to cut joints where there are knots, it's a good idea to avoid that in future! best of luck and keep going.
Get yourself a 53 instead of a 52 1/2, then.
(I've just paid £35 for a nice 52 1/2 Woden to go on a bench I haven't built yet for a shed I haven't yet got P.P for.)
Ha. You wouldn't have a cigarette for my light would you?
I'll have a mooch on the Internet at them - there's a day gone.
clogs
just can't decide
AJB.....
thanks for that info......never did much training in the UK......
have wandering shoes......hahaha....
I still use the story stick / rod method even now.....so easy even on smaller jobs....
thanks for that info......never did much training in the UK......
have wandering shoes......hahaha....
I still use the story stick / rod method even now.....so easy even on smaller jobs....
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Watch Scumtree and Faceslap marketplace - the drawback to buying on line is the P&P will cost nearly as much as the vice.
Right, now the trestles are done I'm up to the diagonal brace from the leg into the apron. This ended up a whole host of cockups that I'm still having sleepless nights over.
Here's the end result so you know what I'm talking about...
The first bit all went fine. Just cutting a lap joint with the shoulder at 45 degrees. The tricky (and totally optional bit) was to cut in the dovetail bit into the angled lap joint. I briefly contemplated making a guide but it seemed overkill for one cut and after blitzing through the lap joint what could possibly go wrong!
As soon as I started the cut I could see I'd started at the wrong angle. I decided to plough on regardless because trying to rectify it would have looked even worse I suppose.
You can see the cut has altered the 45-degree angle of the lap joint behind...
What a mess!
After scratching my head for a while I decided the only thing that would tidy this up (other than starting again) was to change the whole angle of the joint to match my cockup dovetail angle. I hadn't marked the reciprocal joint into the leg yet so it was still possible. Without doing this there would be a big gap visible near that dovetail shape.
So that's what I did. You can see how far off 45 degrees it ended up...
My new shoulder plane came in very handy here. The diagonal is now not going to be at 45 degrees and I'll have to cut the brace into the apron at this new angle but I'll worry about that later!
This job hadn't finished giving me grief yet, though. At some point in time, a little chip came out of the joint. That was time to call it a day! It is nice and tight and doing its job, it's just a bit ugly compared to the other joints.
This small part of the overall job ended up taking ages because of that one misplaced 10-second cut!
I've had a think on how I'd do this differently and maybe I could have made the cut from behind and used the existing 45-degree shoulder as a guide. I have no idea if that would be better or that would cause the front to look a bit messy. Maybe I should have made the guide to get the cut spot on or not bothered with the dovetail detail at all!
On the videos, Richard picks up the tenon saw and just cuts the angle without a second thought. Maybe it is just something that comes with practice! One thing I'm kicking myself over is I should have said to myself... if I'm going to get this cut wrong, get it wrong the right way. If I got the angle wrong the other way it wouldn't have touched the shoulder of the lap joint behind. I could have then corrected the joint quickly with a chisel.
Here's the end result so you know what I'm talking about...
The first bit all went fine. Just cutting a lap joint with the shoulder at 45 degrees. The tricky (and totally optional bit) was to cut in the dovetail bit into the angled lap joint. I briefly contemplated making a guide but it seemed overkill for one cut and after blitzing through the lap joint what could possibly go wrong!
As soon as I started the cut I could see I'd started at the wrong angle. I decided to plough on regardless because trying to rectify it would have looked even worse I suppose.
You can see the cut has altered the 45-degree angle of the lap joint behind...
What a mess!
After scratching my head for a while I decided the only thing that would tidy this up (other than starting again) was to change the whole angle of the joint to match my cockup dovetail angle. I hadn't marked the reciprocal joint into the leg yet so it was still possible. Without doing this there would be a big gap visible near that dovetail shape.
So that's what I did. You can see how far off 45 degrees it ended up...
My new shoulder plane came in very handy here. The diagonal is now not going to be at 45 degrees and I'll have to cut the brace into the apron at this new angle but I'll worry about that later!
This job hadn't finished giving me grief yet, though. At some point in time, a little chip came out of the joint. That was time to call it a day! It is nice and tight and doing its job, it's just a bit ugly compared to the other joints.
This small part of the overall job ended up taking ages because of that one misplaced 10-second cut!
I've had a think on how I'd do this differently and maybe I could have made the cut from behind and used the existing 45-degree shoulder as a guide. I have no idea if that would be better or that would cause the front to look a bit messy. Maybe I should have made the guide to get the cut spot on or not bothered with the dovetail detail at all!
On the videos, Richard picks up the tenon saw and just cuts the angle without a second thought. Maybe it is just something that comes with practice! One thing I'm kicking myself over is I should have said to myself... if I'm going to get this cut wrong, get it wrong the right way. If I got the angle wrong the other way it wouldn't have touched the shoulder of the lap joint behind. I could have then corrected the joint quickly with a chisel.
thetyreman
Established Member
the chip can easily be repaired, you can splice a piece in if it really bothers you, let it set and re-cut to the line, it's good practise as well, splits like this are more common around areas where it's close to a knot, sometimes you get reversing grain and hard/soft spots, it's no big deal, don't get too worked up about it, I think you're doing a very good job, remember this is only a workbench, the joint looks very tight to me.
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That looks fine. We all make mistakes, fewer as we gain experience, and how we deal with them is important. You have dealt with it very well, and remember that nobody will know from looking at the joint what you has intended! And wood gets chipped or damaged from time to time.
MikeG.
Established Member
I'm slightly curious as to why you were setting this part of the joint out with a square. I think I might have clamped the brace in place, with it's dovetail half-lap made, and just marked out around it with a knife.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Hi Stel, I think you’re doing a really good job with those joints, and as you said it’s really good practice and experience. I have always used story sticks but never knew what they were called ha ha. I find the best ones are the wooden slats from a dismantled Venetian blind about an inch across and three mil thick and white, amazing how useful they are. Which reminds me of what I keep them in, really thick cardboard tube, 10 mil thick walls about a 5 inch diameter from a carpet shop, they throw them away, I use them for all sorts of odds and ends in my workshop. Ian S
MikeG.
Established Member
Rods. They're called rods. One of our former colonies calls them story sticks, but they're wrong, as usual.
Thanks. Someone said to use matching wood filler or glue with sanding dust mixed in. I didn't consider splicing a piece in. I'll have to do some research on how to do it now!
Hi MikeG, I was just using the square (set at 45 degrees) to illustrate how far off 45 degrees I actually was, I didn't use it to set out the joint. That's exactly how I did mark it - by clamping it and marking around the butchered joint!
thetyreman
Established Member
hi, all you do is glue in a block of wood ideally with matching grain colour and grain, and cut out the damaged area, you want to try and make it look as invisible as possible, it can all be done with chisels carefully and a small saw....
Before doing it though try using an iron and kitchen towel that's wet/damp, if that doesn't get rid of it you can splice in a piece. the other option is to just leave it alone and leave it as it is.
Wood filler is OK but doesn't absorb stains etc. Saw dust in glue is OK mechanically but much darker than the original. To spllce a piece in, chisel out the hole till it is an easy shape, eg triangular, make by hand a piece that fits in (aligning the grain on the two parts) then glue it in (hold down with tape if a cramp is not practical) then plane or pare off the outer parts to match the outside.
You might want to leave it till you've used the bench for a few months to see if this is worth while, noting the battering it will have had in the meantime!
MikeG.
Established Member
It's a bench, Stel. The odd ding here and there is irrelevant. Leave it as it is.
billw
The Tattooed One
This is looking great. I am looking forward to the day I can take on a project this size.
I was putting this off but I had to grasp the nettle sooner or later and glue and nail these trestles together. I wanted to use rustic looking nails so bought some cut clasp nails. All I could envision was splits forming on my rails instantly turning them into firewood. I was so concerned I built a replica joint and literally tried to cause splitting by going too close to the edges, two nails along the same line on the grain but it didn't happen at all on the test joints. So slightly more confident I carried on...
The bottom rails nailed without a hitch. If I was choosing the nails again I wouldn't go for that shape head. After knocking them below the surface, the hole was a bit ugly. They wouldn't have looked as bad if I hadn't knocked them in so far. I was just paranoid about hitting them with my plane blade.
I used the same nails for the top rails but got a couple of tiny splits I think they were a bit too wide and the top rail isn't fully housed into the leg so has less support. I swapped over to using some oval wire nails I found after rummaging.
If I was starting again I'd just use those nails instead. Much better...
I added chamfers on the edges and then tidied them up a bit with my plane. It felt great inspecting them afterwards like the bench was actually coming together. The nailing bit also felt like the last bit that could go massively pearshaped for the trestles. To get that far and destroy them with a misplaced hammer stroke would have been hard to take!
I couldn't believe how hard I found trimming the ends of the rails. On the video series, Richard has them off no problem with very little effort. I was looking forward to that bit because it looked really satisfying to do with the chisel. I thought I'd got to the point where I could get things sharp but there's obviously another level of sharpness beyond where I'm up to! I tried reducing the secondary bevel right down from 30 degrees to just over 25 and tried without a secondary bevel. It was still a lot of effort to trim that end grain. I eventually just roughly got it down and finished it with the plane.
Finally, the bearers were nailed on to take the top planks
Trestles all done.
The only cockups to report were a couple of splits using the cut clasp nails on one of the top rails. I'm not too disappointed, though. The bits that split were tiny and they will be housed tightly within the apron joint. Also, there's plenty of glue on there to keep it together! I'd definitely use the oval wire nails if I started again. Or maybe dowl. That's something I might consider for the rest of the bench.
The bottom rails nailed without a hitch. If I was choosing the nails again I wouldn't go for that shape head. After knocking them below the surface, the hole was a bit ugly. They wouldn't have looked as bad if I hadn't knocked them in so far. I was just paranoid about hitting them with my plane blade.
I used the same nails for the top rails but got a couple of tiny splits I think they were a bit too wide and the top rail isn't fully housed into the leg so has less support. I swapped over to using some oval wire nails I found after rummaging.
If I was starting again I'd just use those nails instead. Much better...
I added chamfers on the edges and then tidied them up a bit with my plane. It felt great inspecting them afterwards like the bench was actually coming together. The nailing bit also felt like the last bit that could go massively pearshaped for the trestles. To get that far and destroy them with a misplaced hammer stroke would have been hard to take!
I couldn't believe how hard I found trimming the ends of the rails. On the video series, Richard has them off no problem with very little effort. I was looking forward to that bit because it looked really satisfying to do with the chisel. I thought I'd got to the point where I could get things sharp but there's obviously another level of sharpness beyond where I'm up to! I tried reducing the secondary bevel right down from 30 degrees to just over 25 and tried without a secondary bevel. It was still a lot of effort to trim that end grain. I eventually just roughly got it down and finished it with the plane.
Finally, the bearers were nailed on to take the top planks
Trestles all done.
The only cockups to report were a couple of splits using the cut clasp nails on one of the top rails. I'm not too disappointed, though. The bits that split were tiny and they will be housed tightly within the apron joint. Also, there's plenty of glue on there to keep it together! I'd definitely use the oval wire nails if I started again. Or maybe dowl. That's something I might consider for the rest of the bench.
Thanks. Until it is finished I won't know if I can take on a project this size! This is literally the first proper thing I've attempted. That's probably why I'm being overly precious with little chips etc! As others have said it's just a workbench that's going to get battered anyway. Are you limited on space to build something large?
