MarkAW
Established Member
Wow, this thread digressed fast.
Workshop burgled, now my tools are on eBay
- Thread starter AndrewG
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Crazy Dave
Retired Genius now nursing dementia.
Sadly yes, I feel sorry for AndrewG who simply wanted to get advice from the community on improving security.
I think Andrew has got both support and good information from this thread, many good products have been mentioned and how to approach security plus an offer of a one to one for a cup of coffee.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Half of all burglaries are thought to be opportunist, so we have to use the same logic as applies to the quote on advertising - "half the money I spend on advertising is wasted, but I don't know which half". Gravel paths, a dog, floodlights, alarms, SmartWater ... you won't know which individual action has deterred the thief, you just hope one of them does, so the more steps you take the better your chance of success. Encourage them to burgle your neighbour not you.
David Lloyd
Established Member
On our local High Street there's two modern day pawn shops, both overflowing with tools, mostly 110v power tools. I know the staff ask for ID when buying stuff, but the scrotes usually have a stolen driving licence or bus pass to 'prove who they are'.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
They should have cctv for their own protection. Don't forget a lot of builders etc. have traded in 110v (and 230v) stuff for 18v.
The thing about violence is we are all wired differently , had I of caught the xxxxxxxxxers that robbed my flat while I was away from home I guess I would of easily done them some damage -especially as I lived on the 17th floor . However I had several hours travelling home on the day the police contacted me so I went the legal route as far as I could . But just a note to all who quite rightly say that you should not take the law into your own hands -ask yourself if a member of your family ( god forbid ) was seriously hurt by or worse and the police could do nothing ( no cctv or dna etc ) but you found out through other means who was responsible but again the police could do nothing - would you just sit there and say “ oh we’ll never mind , the justice system has let us down but not to worry . All that rage , and anger and seeing your loved one in pain or not able to live their life as they should and you would still stick to the legal way . I’d wager many of you would do exactly the opposite and administer your own form of justice . Also if you disturb an intruder in your own home or you are awaken by intruders you can use reasonable force to defend yourself and your siblings . Of course what is classed as reasonable is where the law can fall into grey areas .. is 12 months suspended and a pittance of a fine going to make you feel better when all of your hard earned tools have gone to some toxxer with a habit ..I’m also shure the op knows right from wrong . As for @Spectric again I’m pretty sure no member especially a mod would actively endorse breaking the law but like myself I hate these posts where someone has lost their tools due to a break in or theft from a van it can easily get the blood boiling and often you will say things verbally that in normal circumstances you would never even think of ..so I too hope the op can move forward from this whatever ghe legal outcome . Sadly he will not be the last to post such devastating news . I too would like to see a dedicated section for security and insurance etc ..
This is like when our soldiers get taken to court for something they are alleged to have done say in Iraq or wherever, without actually being there in the situation or heat of the moment you are really not in a position to judge others actions whilst sitting in some courtroom. They may have had milliseconds to make a judgement which could have been life or death and not days to ponder over heaps of so called testimony.
How is it like that though?
Youve just described ‘heat of the moment’ and ‘milliseconds to decide’. Not the same as your suggestion to employ someone to hospitalise someone you suspect of stealing your stuff.
Youve just described ‘heat of the moment’ and ‘milliseconds to decide’. Not the same as your suggestion to employ someone to hospitalise someone you suspect of stealing your stuff.
I have a GBH conviction record for attacking two burglars in my parents kitchen when I was sixteen and into martial arts, I am now 75 and wished I had done them more damage, I only broke the collar bones on one and the jaw of the other, would I do the same now, in the circumstances of them coming at me as then, Yes.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
There is a world of difference between a crime of passion, action taken in the heat if the moment, and premeditated revenge/retribution. If you murdered/*****/tortured/mutilated someone close to me, I would, or I like to think I would, hunt you down like a dog and have my revenge, I that's only natural, but I can't support the death penalty, for example, and I can't condone and wouldn't encourage violence against someone who stole someone else's tools. It's easy to condemn someone as a "scumbag" or a "scrote", but you know nothing of their circumstances.
Ask yourself this:
What is it that stops you from breaking into someone's workshop and stealing their tools?
Is it the fear of being caught and punished?
How about inflating your losses on an insurance claim? What stops you doing that? Or cheating on your tax returns? Maybe the perpetrator was a drug addict, as someone suggested, have you ever been a drug addict? I haven't, but I don't expect it's a good place to be.
I sympathise greatly with the OP in this thread, but the others baying for blood should save their ire for the real baddies, like that "Lady" with the dodgy PPE company.
Ask yourself this:
What is it that stops you from breaking into someone's workshop and stealing their tools?
Is it the fear of being caught and punished?
How about inflating your losses on an insurance claim? What stops you doing that? Or cheating on your tax returns? Maybe the perpetrator was a drug addict, as someone suggested, have you ever been a drug addict? I haven't, but I don't expect it's a good place to be.
I sympathise greatly with the OP in this thread, but the others baying for blood should save their ire for the real baddies, like that "Lady" with the dodgy PPE company.
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A lot to unpack in that sentence. My understanding was that the UK did not permit the term, 'crime of passion' to be a defence, unlike the French 'Crime Passionel'. Where a murder in the UK was associated with adultery, the husband may cite 'provocation' as a defence to murder of a wife's lover. In fact, I think they now have to cite 'loss of control' because the term provocation is not used any more. Action taken in the heat of the moment may be provoked by many different motives.
The case of the farmer, Tony Martin, was one where he was actively defending his property against a couple of intruders. He used a shotgun and killed one of the men. Had that man been running towards him when he shot him, he may have escaped a long term in jail. As the man was running away, the law assumed that he was no longer a threat and should not have been shot. There were several other factors which impinged on that case but the motive of Mr Martin was to protect his property and to take care of his personal safety.
It's easy to see how any planned actions may be seen by the courts. At the very least, planned actions will usually be regarded as taking the law into one's own hands. The matter of retribution is not left to the victims of crime for clear reasons. Cutting one's losses and making entry harder along with disguising the activities if possible and trust to luck may be useful adjuncts to keeping a workshop intact. Possibly a guard dog will help too. The replacement value is not the issue but the attachment to the tools for whatever reason will never be repaired. I will check with my house insurer but as far as I can remember, they will not insure valuable items kept in a temporary structure (shed) .
EDIT: spelling mistakes
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No there has been that, as well as some light hearted and humerous commentary.Sadly yes, I feel sorry for AndrewG who simply wanted to get advice from the community on improving security.
It will be quite a depressing time and a bit of humour certainly lightens the mood, makes things less black. It happened, cant change that, but rather than dwell, say WTF.
Not sure why you would want to darken the proceedings of it again.
RogerS
Established Member
Slight digression but a great example of lateral thinking...
A friend of mine - retired accountant - was the FD of a company with a factory pressing vinyl records. Loads of break-ins. Tried everything re security but they still got in. So he got a couple of nasty guard dogs and let them prowl the factory and fenced in grounds. Then someone complained about dangerous dogs being loose blah blah blah. So he checked the fine print of the law and discovered that, yes indeed, guard dogs are only allowed to roam at will in their own kennel and compound.
So he got a signwriting firm to stick a massive sign at the top of the factory wall. The sign said 'Dog kennel'. Sorted.
A friend of mine - retired accountant - was the FD of a company with a factory pressing vinyl records. Loads of break-ins. Tried everything re security but they still got in. So he got a couple of nasty guard dogs and let them prowl the factory and fenced in grounds. Then someone complained about dangerous dogs being loose blah blah blah. So he checked the fine print of the law and discovered that, yes indeed, guard dogs are only allowed to roam at will in their own kennel and compound.
So he got a signwriting firm to stick a massive sign at the top of the factory wall. The sign said 'Dog kennel'. Sorted.
I have to say that I for one don't find Spectric's views disappointing. What IS disappointing however is the namby-pamby way we in the West have become injured to the idea that it's okay for scumbags to victimise us, whether it be because they have rights that somehow trump our own or because responding with measures which would adequately dissuade them would start some kind of arms race. As citizens we devolve our individual rights to protect ourselves and our property to society; if those charged with ensuring this happens aren't up to the job then the deal is clearly being breached. Telling people to just suck it up is one of the reasons that crime is so prevalent and the authorities so complacent.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I wasn't using the term as a defence, or indeed, as a legal term.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Nor do I.
I find them downright scary and simple-minded.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Nearly 50 years ago I had a caravan, sited next to a derelict cottage my mother was to have demolished. It got broken into every couple of weeks and it was always through a window, which as the were curved at the bottom were expensive to replace. I cured the problem. Some six months or so later I was asked by a local copper if it was still getting broken into. No, I said, I stopped it. How did you do that? he asked. I put the feet into rubber tyres and wired the chassis to the mains, I said. Jeez, you're lucky you're not in court for manslaughter - if Kitchener George (the local tramp) had gone in there and touched it he could have a serious heart attack! Well he shouldn't have been there, it's private property and nowhere near the road, I said. That's neither here nor there, switch it off before you get prosecuted.
I switched it off and was broken into again within a week.
I switched it off and was broken into again within a week.
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