Why do we have so many issues with software programs

[Spectric]

It seems to be a thing at the moment where people like Microsoft are delivering products that they think we want or will like but without really getting any customer feedback and I am finding the newer products seem more tempermental and less user freindly than there predecessors. First issue was with moving onto Windows 10 and finding the new start menu was just horrible so had to install a 3rd party product called Start Menu X which gave me back the old XP style interface and all works well. Then Microsoft has stopped support for Office 2013 which I have been using without any issues for the last ten years, so forced to upgrade to office 2021 even though microsoft really pushes office 365 which you only rent. This product has been tempermental and given many issues that I have never encountered before and also this really odd so called simplified ribbon. The best way to describe the logic behind this is that rather than keep tools in a toolbox, fixtures in another box and say wood in a woodrack you just put tools anywhere and mix everything up. In the case of this ribbon the tools menu has gone and the tools put in many other places for you to play hide and seek. Again solution was a 3rd party program that adds back the classic ribbon with the extra tools of office 2021 included and now all seems to work because you can find the tools you need. So if Microsofts newer products are that good there would be no demand for these 3rd party add on's to return the product back to a more familiar useable interface but it seems to be a growing market where Microsoft is thinking it is improving a product but many others disagree and these 3rd party providers are cashing in on microsofts failures.

How many others are finding that newer products are just not cutting it, almost like in ten years office has not really needed to change apart from maybe in the background to operate on newer Pc architectures.

 

[RogerS]

The same thing happens in Mac world. Why they have to keep fiddling I don't know. I am still on Catalina OS 10.15. Why? Becausse they decided to redesign the user interface and followed the Lemming-like rush to creating screens with 99.9% white space and 0.1% text or graphics etc.

eBay..just as bad. They used to tell you what you'd ordered which made searching so much easier. Now all they email you is 'We've got your order'. NSS! Now tell me something I don't know and more importantly is actually useful.

 

[Housey210]

It seems to be a thing at the moment where people like Microsoft are delivering products that they think we want or will like but without really getting any customer feedback and I am finding the newer products seem more tempermental and less user freindly than there predecessors. First issue was with moving onto Windows 10 and finding the new start menu was just horrible so had to install a 3rd party product called Start Menu X which gave me back the old XP style interface and all works well. Then Microsoft has stopped support for Office 2013 which I have been using without any issues for the last ten years, so forced to upgrade to office 2021 even though microsoft really pushes office 365 which you only rent. This product has been tempermental and given many issues that I have never encountered before and also this really odd so called simplified ribbon. The best way to describe the logic behind this is that rather than keep tools in a toolbox, fixtures in another box and say wood in a woodrack you just put tools anywhere and mix everything up. In the case of this ribbon the tools menu has gone and the tools put in many other places for you to play hide and seek. Again solution was a 3rd party program that adds back the classic ribbon with the extra tools of office 2021 included and now all seems to work because you can find the tools you need. So if Microsofts newer products are that good there would be no demand for these 3rd party add on's to return the product back to a more familiar useable interface but it seems to be a growing market where Microsoft is thinking it is improving a product but many others disagree and these 3rd party providers are cashing in on microsofts failures.

How many others are finding that newer products are just not cutting it, almost like in ten years office has not really needed to change apart from maybe in the background to operate on newer Pc architectures.

Agree and loads on youtube about this. The norm will be rent everything and as regards other software on your own wind 10 /11 according to those in the know on youtube none will work unless approved by MS and through their store. Not just MS but Mac too I believe. My local PC shop closed two years ago saying it was now impossible for them to build new systems because of MS rules adding it is only a matter of time before a charge per year, like office 365, comes in for the home user. My local printer, as all printers, uses adobe and just a year after paying thousands for the suite their system was shut down and had no option but to rent per year. I hate the way this has all gone and even more at the pushing of MS by the storage of everything you do on your own pc being backed up to their cloud, from pickies to letters sent. Managed to turn that off though I have to opt back in to get access to those on their server! As too the damn council and cops, when foi requests are made, all come back compiled in a word format that again pushes me onto the cloud. All now are greeted with an abrupt, send in pdf. I am fortunate that I do not need a computer for work, just emails, ebay and browsing. For me I now fire up my old xp and use that for all offline work such as letters and flyers. No issues with all the hookey software bought from the boot sale!

 

[AES]

It seems to be a thing at the moment where people like Microsoft are delivering products that they think we want or will like but without really getting any customer feedback and I am finding the newer products seem more tempermental and less user freindly than there predecessors. First issue was with moving onto Windows 10 and finding the new start menu was just horrible so had to install a 3rd party product called Start Menu X which gave me back the old XP style interface and all works well. Then Microsoft has stopped support for Office 2013 which I have been using without any issues for the last ten years, so forced to upgrade to office 2021 even though microsoft really pushes office 365 which you only rent. This product has been tempermental and given many issues that I have never encountered before and also this really odd so called simplified ribbon. The best way to describe the logic behind this is that rather than keep tools in a toolbox, fixtures in another box and say wood in a woodrack you just put tools anywhere and mix everything up. In the case of this ribbon the tools menu has gone and the tools put in many other places for you to play hide and seek. Again solution was a 3rd party program that adds back the classic ribbon with the extra tools of office 2021 included and now all seems to work because you can find the tools you need. So if Microsofts newer products are that good there would be no demand for these 3rd party add on's to return the product back to a more familiar useable interface but it seems to be a growing market where Microsoft is thinking it is improving a product but many others disagree and these 3rd party providers are cashing in on microsofts failures.

How many others are finding that newer products are just not cutting it, almost like in ten years office has not really needed to change apart from maybe in the background to operate on newer Pc architectures.

Agree 100+%! Each MS "upgrade" or new version arguably makes stuff look "prettier" but ends up being even more opaque and difficult to actually use. Don't know why they do it, unless - could it be - to convince us to pay them more money when they stop supporting a previous product.

 

[AES]

Agree and loads on youtube about this. The norm will be rent everything and as regards other software on your own wind 10 /11 according to those in the know on youtube none will work unless approved by MS and through their store. Not just MS but Mac too I believe. My local PC shop closed two years ago saying it was now impossible for them to build new systems because of MS rules adding it is only a matter of time before a charge per year, like office 365, comes in for the home user. My local printer, as all printers, uses adobe and just a year after paying thousands for the suite their system was shut down and had no option but to rent per year. I hate the way this has all gone and even more at the pushing of MS by the storage of everything you do on your own pc being backed up to their cloud, from pickies to letters sent. Managed to turn that off though I have to opt back in to get access to those on their server! As too the damn council and cops, when foi requests are made, all come back compiled in a word format that again pushes me onto the cloud. All now are greeted with an abrupt, send in pdf. I am fortunate that I do not need a computer for work, just emails, ebay and browsing. For me I now fire up my old xp and use that for all offline work such as letters and flyers. No issues with all the hookey software bought from the boot sale!

And a big +1 here for MS XP.

 

[Housey210]

Agree 100+%! Each MS "upgrade" or new version arguably makes stuff look "prettier" but ends up being even more opaque and difficult to actually use. Don't know why they do it, unless - could it be - to convince us to pay them more money when they stop supporting a previous product.

OMG, MS word on wind 10, what an effort, I can fire up my old xp and load my old word 2004 quicker than I can find a tool that has been deeply hidden on this "Fresher version" WHY? Moreover all those hookey discs can be loaded onto any amount of pc's I choose to build, for home use as a word processor. Lost my adobe indesign suite when my win 7 died, which I feel was all a con to force win 10, but, with hours spent, evently got it to load onto the xp, cant be without my indesign and photoshop. old xp and office suites, they should still will work on pc not connected to internet?

 

[AES]

Yup, using XP and Word (and Photoshop 5 I think) + a few other "old" things, and all works perfectly. I paid my money, got to understand how to make it do what I want it to do, so quite happy thanks. And "Do you want the latest & greatest updates?" - NO I do NOT thank you Mr. Gates, (and all yer other merry men)!

 

[Housey210]

It seems to be a thing at the moment where people like Microsoft are delivering products that they think we want or will like but without really getting any customer feedback and I am finding the newer products seem more tempermental and less user freindly than there predecessors. First issue was with moving onto Windows 10 and finding the new start menu was just horrible so had to install a 3rd party product called Start Menu X which gave me back the old XP style interface and all works well. Then Microsoft has stopped support for Office 2013 which I have been using without any issues for the last ten years, so forced to upgrade to office 2021 even though microsoft really pushes office 365 which you only rent. This product has been tempermental and given many issues that I have never encountered before and also this really odd so called simplified ribbon. The best way to describe the logic behind this is that rather than keep tools in a toolbox, fixtures in another box and say wood in a woodrack you just put tools anywhere and mix everything up. In the case of this ribbon the tools menu has gone and the tools put in many other places for you to play hide and seek. Again solution was a 3rd party program that adds back the classic ribbon with the extra tools of office 2021 included and now all seems to work because you can find the tools you need. So if Microsofts newer products are that good there would be no demand for these 3rd party add on's to return the product back to a more familiar useable interface but it seems to be a growing market where Microsoft is thinking it is improving a product but many others disagree and these 3rd party providers are cashing in on microsofts failures.

How many others are finding that newer products are just not cutting it, almost like in ten years office has not really needed to change apart from maybe in the background to operate on newer Pc architectures.

build a new pc and load up all your old software. I built one years ago which I use upstairs, writing a book, and another xp just last year to use in downstairs dining room, to save my legs! Neither connected to net and all work composed I just put on stick and send via email on my win 10.

 

[Housey210]

Yup, using XP and Word (and Photoshop 5 I think) + a few other "old" things, and all works perfectly. I paid my money, got to understand how to make it do what I want it to do, so quite happy thanks. And "Do you want the latest & greatest updates?" - NO I do NOT thank you Mr. Gates, (and all yer other merry men)!

nail on head, money. One giant con now all this yearly subscriptions though it will come. Ooh another pop up, just, "7 day free trail of adobe" I wonder how much it will cost for the year?

 

[Inspector]

I left the Gate's world more than a dozen years ago but even before I did I was using free program suites that did what MS Office did. I still use them on my old Mac. Look at Apache Open Office or Libre Office (the one I'm using now) and see if you like them. They are loaded to the computer and not cloudy or rented. If you don't like them you can dump them.

No answers for the rest of your complaints.

Pete

 

[Terry - Somerset]

For many (possibly most) of us there is no need for improvements in functionality - we would be happy with a 10 year old version of MS.

MS unsurprisingly recognise that charging once for a product that doesn't get replaced for 10+ years is not a viable business model. There are not enough new users to make up for the lack of repeat business as the market is saturated - the only option is a rental or licence fee.

Substantially universal access to the WWW allows software and security updates + "free" cloud storage to tie in users. Either very comforting or intrusive depending on POV.

A few users identify gaps in functionality. Software development is understandably dominated by geek culture which revels in functionality - real or illusory. It is a competitive business - part of staying ahead is about unique features and differentiation.

Like cars - 20 year old technology is quite capable of safe transport at adequate speed - but folk like climate control, automatic breaking, built in sat nav, 8 speed gearboxes.

Those with IT skills can install free programs but it takes effort and some IT skill. MS is a comfort blanket - it mostly works fine for routine tasks, there is a wealth of expertise to identify occasional problems, there is little worry about incompatibility etc etc.

Conclusion - we need to deal with what is now, however much we may regret the passing of a simpler past.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Did you mean "automatic breaking"? You're probably right, though.

 

[worn thumbs]

I'm another who regards XP as the high water mark for Microsoft.When I heard early reports of Vista,I didn't want to know and while windows 7 was a bit better I remained unconvinced about the "progress" on offer.So I started to play with Linux and haven't really used anything else for fifteen years or so.I don't need to rent software or buy frequent updates.The writing was on the wall long ago,shortly after the software most of us had used for a while seemed entirely adequate as the software companies had effectively made themselves redundant.So they introduced features we hadn't realised we would hardly ever need and tweaked file formats so that our old software couldn't open more recent files that might have been sent to us.Now some of us suffer software that won't work unless we have a live internet connection to validate the operation.Progress?

 

[heronviewer]

It’s difficult to avoid Microsoft completely but there are a lot of excellent totally free programmes. For office work, Libre Office is just as good as the Microsoft version and there are several graphics programmes, pdf programmes and many others. Most of the free programmes will run happily on Windows 10 and 11.

 

[Spectric]

For many (possibly most) of us there is no need for improvements in functionality - we would be happy with a 10 year old version of MS.

Yes if it is not broke then what is there to fix.

My local printer, as all printers, uses adobe and just a year after paying thousands for the suite their system was shut down and had no option but to rent per year. I hate the way this has all gone and even more at the pushing of MS by the storage of everything you do on your own pc being backed up to their cloud, from pickies to letters sent.

Adobes got that market really sewn up, you want to edit photo's then you need Lightroom as a minimum and Photoshop if you want the extra editing features and as you say all rented. My first copy of Lightroom was free as a previous user of Rawshooter, the basis of Lightroom but the cost did increase and now along with the cost of photographic equipment makes it a really costly pastime.

When I look back my first wordprocessor was something called Galaxy that ran under DOS and then moved onto Wordperfect office because it was more advanced than any microsoft product and the spreadsheet program called Quattro pro was also much better, it could handle sixteen bit binary numbers whereas Excel in those days ran out of steam at around 8 bits.

Many good and superior products seem to get taken out by the bigger companies with more powerful marketing, Netscape was really solid compared to Internet explorer and look at how VHS won over the better Betamax protocol.

I'm another who regards XP as the high water mark for Microsoft.

I think I used XP for the longest duration of all my OS's and having previously used NT4 which was also solid as it had been designed for servers things have gone down hill, XP was based on the NT core and was just so stable but now they seem to have become bloatware and now we are looking down the barrel of Windows 11 ! Microsoft needs to understand that the people using desktops and laptops are not the same people who use Android devices, also why has Microsoft decided to call it's software programs apps ? It is all getting rather daft, and a big issue is that these devices are tools which are used to deliver an output, you don't want to be spending more time trying to fix and repair your tools as that is non productive.

I have little faith in clouds and even less in the microsoft cloud, I did look at using it to syncronise data between the PC and laptops but just felt uncomfortable about the security aspect, plus it was not that freindly. Next mistake was buying a Western Digital mycloud, on dear what a disaster for WD.

Supposed to behave like network attached storage but just did not function under Windows 10, many said it does work under windows 7 but not 10 and that got returned and I just brough a Synology NAS box which is just a PC without keyboard or screen and that worked very easily and gives me full control with all data at my finger tips and not on some cloud.

 

[Housey210]

It’s difficult to avoid Microsoft completely but there are a lot of excellent totally free programmes. For office work, Libre Office is just as good as the Microsoft version and there are several graphics programmes, pdf programmes and many others. Most of the free programmes will run happily on Windows 10 and 11.

Indeed, difficult to avoid but more troubling is the control they will have and what you can and can not use. check out the link

 

[niemeyjt]

I think 64-bit Windows 7 was their high water mark. IIRC XP was only 32-bit so a bit short of memory support.

Now my go-to is Linux Mint and LibreOffice (or OnlyOffice for those who need MS Office Compatibility).

MS want you to rent everything - it is Office 365 today, it will be Windows next.

 

[Dabop]

My house is very dark, it has no windows....
Been using Ubuntu since the late 2000's, got a single XP machine for some stuff that demands XP, had a win7 laptop for a few months, but its now Ubuntu as well

For those that can't handle change, it is probably the best in terms of user friendliness for 'non tech' users or phone users, adding software is as simple as going to the 'app store' aka the software store and clicking on install- no terminal window or typing commands out...
(I also use Linux CNC on my 3d mill, laser etc simply because it works so much better than Ubuntu or windows for that kind of thing, but it isn't as 'user friendly' as Ubuntu for your day to day stuff)
Plus 'Windows 10' - how boring....
Having an OS named 'Bionic Beaver'????
LOL

 

[worn thumbs]

Yes if it is not broke then what is there to fix.


Adobes got that market really sewn up, you want to edit photo's then you need Lightroom as a minimum and Photoshop if you want the extra editing features and as you say all rented. My first copy of Lightroom was free as a previous user of Rawshooter, the basis of Lightroom but the cost did increase and now along with the cost of photographic equipment makes it a really costly pastime.


I have little faith in clouds and even less in the microsoft cloud, I did look at using it to syncronise data between the PC and laptops but just felt uncomfortable about the security aspect, plus it was not that freindly. Next mistake was buying a Western Digital mycloud, on dear what a disaster for WD.

Supposed to behave like network attached storage but just did not function under Windows 10, many said it does work under windows 7 but not 10 and that got returned and I just brough a Synology NAS box which is just a PC without keyboard or screen and that worked very easily and gives me full control with all data at my finger tips and not on some cloud. it allows file access froma

I don't know how many here have tried GIMP for image editing,it will do all sorts of stuff that is way ahead of my abilities and I suspect very similar to Photoshop.I don't object to the use of cloud storage in principle but do find the premise that it allows file access from anywhere to be simplistic and flawed.If I'm travelling and find myself without a phone signal,I don't have any access to those files.

I do have a NAS tale of woe since I bought a Seagate a few years ago and for a while it was great.Then it wasn't because the design had flawed design of the internal heat dissipation system and cooked an important element.These days I plug in a usb hard drive for backup and it works well enough.

Like Dapop I use LinuxCNC on my home build CNC router and it is totally reliable.If I use that system for web browsing it can be a bit slow but the shed is a bit far from the router in the house.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Yes if it is not broke then what is there to fix.


Adobes got that market really sewn up, you want to edit photo's then you need Lightroom as a minimum and Photoshop if you want the extra editing features and as you say all rented. My first copy of Lightroom was free as a previous user of Rawshooter, the basis of Lightroom but the cost did increase and now along with the cost of photographic equipment makes it a really costly pastime.

When I look back my first wordprocessor was something called Galaxy that ran under DOS and then moved onto Wordperfect office because it was more advanced than any microsoft product and the spreadsheet program called Quattro pro was also much better, it could handle sixteen bit binary numbers whereas Excel in those days ran out of steam at around 8 bits.

Many good and superior products seem to get taken out by the bigger companies with more powerful marketing, Netscape was really solid compared to Internet explorer and look at how VHS won over the better Betamax protocol.


I think I used XP for the longest duration of all my OS's and having previously used NT4 which was also solid as it had been designed for servers things have gone down hill, XP was based on the NT core and was just so stable but now they seem to have become bloatware and now we are looking down the barrel of Windows 11 ! Microsoft needs to understand that the people using desktops and laptops are not the same people who use Android devices, also why has Microsoft decided to call it's software programs apps ? It is all getting rather daft, and a big issue is that these devices are tools which are used to deliver an output, you don't want to be spending more time trying to fix and repair your tools as that is non productive.

I have little faith in clouds and even less in the microsoft cloud, I did look at using it to syncronise data between the PC and laptops but just felt uncomfortable about the security aspect, plus it was not that freindly. Next mistake was buying a Western Digital mycloud, on dear what a disaster for WD.

Supposed to behave like network attached storage but just did not function under Windows 10, many said it does work under windows 7 but not 10 and that got returned and I just brough a Synology NAS box which is just a PC without keyboard or screen and that worked very easily and gives me full control with all data at my finger tips and not on some cloud.

If you want to synchronise your computers grab a copy of OwnCloud. It’s FOS and very reliable. I run the cloud server in a VM on one of my computers. I have full cloud sync across all my computers and access to the files on other devices. The main reason I have it is for synchronising my photo library between my laptop, desktop and remote backup.
I ditched Adobe when they introduced subscriptions. There are lots of other alternatives out there, DxO PhotoLab is excellent. Luminar Neo is very impressive though they are also getting a bit money grabby.