Who is in and who is out?

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Jacob":1nufc41z said:
dynax":1nufc41z said:
if things do go belly up, and the pound becomes worthless, we have the barter system to fall back on, better get me some chickens and a couple of sheep just in case :D
What you really need is a little crop of potatoes hidden away somewhere - plus a dryish cave to store them in. That's what kept many European peasants alive when various forms of sh|t hit the fans.

nothing wrong with a bit of homebrew =P~
 
Farage previously suggested that a 52 - 48 vote in favour of remain would be grounds for a second referendum. He soon shut his trap about that.
 
dexter":11zip8lc said:
Here's a thought, the Tory party's hundred thousand or so members elect the new PM. Not wanting to make the same mistake as Gordon Brown the new PM calls a general election. The Labour Party is dead in the water, the Tory party is still universally hated, in steps Mr Farage still riding high in the opinions of millions on the back of Bretex, UKIP sweeps the board and takes power!
I'll bet that scenario has crossed the mind of Mr F.

A general election won by a party or coalition with 'stay in Europe' in its/their manifesto trumps the referendum.
We decide when to implement Clause 50. The next election is 2020, unless 75% of MPs sign to say they want it earlier (I think). Doris has said 'There is no haste' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36620139.

Is the plan to delay Clause 50 implementation to see what else we can negotiate and then trump the referendum?

Brian
 
undergroundhunter":10pr080p said:
I'm 27 and voted to leave as did 90% of the people I have spoken to most under the age of 50, just to give some balance. I voted to leave because I want change.

.......
Britain will come through this and hopefully better than before.

I agree with you. I think we now have a slightly confused political situation, with both main parties in some turmoil, and the SNP making mischief.

The Tories have had the problem of internal division over the question of the EU for a couple of decades. Cameron calling the referendum was in part to settle that question. Well, it has; though not in the way he intended. The Tories will regroup, elect a new leader, and probably minus a few resigning Europhiles, go on stronger and more united.

Labour has a bigger problem, in that the PLP and the membership are going in different political directions. If the membership win out, they will move further left, and probably become unelectable. If the PLP win out, they too could well regroup as a credible centre-left alternative to the Tories, but they will have to find a way to reconnect with their traditional supporters if they are to be electable; being the party of Metropolitan bien-penseurs is not enough.

UKIP has a bigger problem still - it's main reason for existence is now gone. It may still hang about mopping up disaffected former labour voters, but that won't be enough to give it more than a few Parliamentary seats.

Thus, it does look as if we are going to have a Tory government for the next few years. However, it is likely to be fairly stable, which is something the country does need. In time, other parties will rearrange themselves enough to become a credible government-in-waiting.

Above all else, there is one thing that will improve things for us, the ordinary people. Those in Parliament will gradually become those actually making the decisions as the shackles of EU directives are slowly sloughed off. The closing of the gap between the governed and those actually making the real decisions, and the accountability of those decision-makers at election time, will mean fewer mealy-mouthed ministers trying to hide the fact that they can't do anything except follow the EU directives. That will improve political discourse because they'll be debating things they actually CAN do rather than things they'd like to do but can't because the EU won't let them.

By the way - for any younger people worried that the older generation has voted their future away, have a look at the economic direction of the Eurozone (and wider Europe) and compare it with the economic direction of the rest of the world. It's entirely possible that you look back in ten years, and thank the older generation for saving you from the economic fallout of Eurozone collapse and the subsequent recession in Europe. I may be wrong, but that does seem to be the way the runes point at the moment.
 
Jacob":115zvcad said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36620139
Amazing waffle and desperate trimming from Boris. I don't think he thought Brexit would win and now he bears responsibility for this fiasco.

Jacob,

See my post 3 above, with same video clip.
Also, Doris was late to join Leavers - IIRC - he allegedly couldn't decide which side to support. I agree I think he got a shock when BREXIT won and its a step too far - he is now looking for a way out. There is one as I see it.

Brian
 
Jacob,
Just watched the clip of the bretexer, I assume that the young man with her was her career!
 
RogerS":1petk55f said:
Jacob":1petk55f said:
.... followed by the racist murder Of Jo Cox MP..."

Sorry, Jacob, been on the wine again? Where/how was Jo Cox's murder racist ?
I didn't say that. It's not my quote.
 
Jacob":k5kxsagh said:
RogerS":k5kxsagh said:
Jacob":k5kxsagh said:
.... followed by the racist murder Of Jo Cox MP..."

Sorry, Jacob, been on the wine again? Where/how was Jo Cox's murder racist ?
I didn't say that. It's not my quote.

But you quoted it, without making any comment regarding it, and so therefore you endorsed it.

You could have simply removed it from your original cut and paste.
 
It is so interesting to read all your opinions on the referendum result, such a wide variety.

I haven't really told anyone how I voted yet, let alone explained myself. I'm writing this post as much for myself as anyone else. I'd be interested to see if any of my points resonate anywhere, because I assure you, I was as confused as a lot of people, for a long time, when it came to this referendum.

I've noted that there seems to be a lot of information going around about how young people overwhelmingly backed remain. It's interesting because out of 8 of our staff under 25, only 1 voted remain. It makes you wonder where they get this polling information from, although mine is admittedly a small sample size from "up narf", where we really only like people who can make yorkshire puddings without a recipe ;)

I'm in my mid thirties and voted leave and at great potential financial loss. I voted with my heart. I voted leave because in my view, the EU made it quite clear that we were not respected, by making a mockery of our requests for reform. They only became demands once the feeling of the electorate was made clear at the European elections and Cameron literally had no choice but to act. I do believe he did the best he could in negotiations, but then tried to spin them as a success, when even to a thicko like me, they were clearly a disaster. I voted for him at the last general election and at this point regretted it deeply. He must genuinely have believed the working class were so stupid as to not realise what had happened.

Ultimately, the unelected EU political elite refused to listen. The sentiment of our electorate was echoed across Europe and saw the rise of populism almost across the board, the effect of which is yet to be seen. Still they refused to listen, turning former pro-EU voters like myself, who love the varied cultures of the nations in the EU, into sceptics questioning exactly how far removed the EU is from what I consider democracy.

The straw that broke the camels back was Juncker, the hard left President of the EU commission. He was, very unwisely, insisting there will be absolutely no further negotiation regardless. Well, ok then, you try to bully us to stay, we will show you that the English will and can not be bullied. I'd be tempted to say he was hoping for a Brexit all along, as we really don't fit in with his hard left political demographic. He's out of touch and likely very soon, out of a job.

I don't want our laws, any portion of them, to be made abroad by people who were appointed to the role rather than elected. I don't want our nation to be an enormous net contributor and yet have Angela Merkel acting unilaterally in openly welcoming migrants, regardless of the reason they are coming. Yes, we are partly to blame for their displacement and frankly I wish we had never got involved, but rather than respecting the fact that such a decision would have far reaching implications on the culture, demographics and economies of member states, she made it perfectly clear that she is running the show and cared not a jot for the concerns of others. The migrants are not the problem, the actions of the EU political elite, are.

I have often wondered if Angela Merkel ever actually sat down and considered the harm that her decision would cause to the migrants themselves. Long, life threatening journeys based on false hope of asylum, living in squalor, a humanitarian disaster of epic proportions. France have acted appallingly in humanitarian terms. Granted, Merkels decision was not the precursor, but it was certainly the catalyst for the numbers seen today, and the corresponding levels of human suffering.

Entire generations of men died in two separate wars to forge Europe into what it is today, to defeat the common European enemy of the time, Germany. The days of doing so by force are long passed, but when Europe was formed, I certainly do not think the intention was for Germany to be solely at the helm, yet that is the de facto situation, regardless of the apparently limp European parliament. I believe that all countries were supposed to have equal voice, as it should be. This has proven to be untrue in my view, influence instead, being based on the size of a countries' wallet. Please understand, I am not anti-German, I am anti-anyone who thinks that they have the right to act alone to the detriment of others.

Going back to the youth vote for a second, the younger generation should remember that they would not have been in the privileged position of having a vote had it not been for the sacrifices made generations before, by their close ancestors. What has happened in this referendum, is a return to independence for the UK, in the hope that other European nations will follow suit, and finally each nation can come together and have an equal voice, including Germany. This will undoubtedly be to the benefit of the youth and be shown through lower house prices, hopefully cuts to university tuition and better employment prospects for all European countries. All tied to managed, rather than non-existent migration.

What exactly was the EU for? What did it provide that could not be accomplished by dialog between countries, by alliances, by diplomacy? Already we have indications that Canada and South Korea would welcome a trade agreement with us with open arms, many more are likely to follow suit, from within Europe also. Thus I propose, that it is in fact not the UK which has isolated itself, but rather the EU isolated us from the rest of the world.

I am very much pro Europe, but now, as a result of the actions of a few, I am no longer pro-EU. There a distinct difference. The EU is NOT the Europe I love and respect.
I would welcome a person of any nationality into my home and to my country, but I will not have them tell me how to arrange my furniture or what the laws of our land should be.

On another note, I welcome the opportunity for Scotland to have a referendum on it's own independence, they clearly want to be part of the EU and that is true democracy at it's finest.

Let's unite and heal the divisions. Have some faith in the citizens of this country. We have gotten through far worse. Ignore the extremists on either side of the argument, the naysayers and the bringers of doom. Most of them probably think that European culture begins and ends in Nando's (yes I'm aware it's not exclusively European food..).
 
Guess we'd better get get the candles out in this part of the country now.

French company EDF have been holding off making a decision about investing in the 14 billion pound Hinkley C nuclear power station.

As it was also to be funded in part by the Fench government, who were dragging their heels before, it is very possible they pull the (13amp) plug completely now. A perfect excuse without admitting they find the project unviable (of impossible) to build.


Phil
 
Newsnight was interesting.....
 
BearTricks":2ld15tej said:
Eric The Viking":2ld15tej said:
Explain to me what negative interest rates are all about please, because I think at that point the financial world has collectively lost any right to be taken seriously. Yet that's the case in parts of the eurozone right now.

Negative interest rates are generally mischaracterised. They don't refer to every day interest rates, but rather a specific interest rate that banks charge each other to borrow money outside of business hours. If done properly it doesn't tend to effect the general public.

In other news, France has overtaken us to become the new 5th biggest economy in the world.

Oh good - if our EU charges were based on the size of our economy, then france can now pay the second largest share and we can get some relief. Ofc the french being a bolshy lot probably won't like that too much and vote to leave, putting the onus on the "next" 5th largest economy within the EU.

But that's probably not how it works as france is in league with germany..... now where have I heard that before?
 
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