Who is in and who is out?

[Mark Hancock]

This website claims to be impartial

http://www.ukandeu.ac.uk

Just been through the 4 pages of Facts and it is fascinating to see the difference between those and what is being put out in the media.

 

[RogerS]

......
Seems to me that fundamentally it is an exceedingly poor idea to mortgage your trust and future well being of yourselves and future generations to an unelected, unaccountable massive quango with a heavily socialist agenda, that has a substantial track record of serial incompetence, corruption and wide ranging and self serving agendas and heavily biased and exceedingly poor political decision making.

....!

Damn you, Paulm. ..just when I thought I'd had things clear in my own mind, this does strike a chord with me. I'm now back on the fence...veering towards Leave.

To my mind, the question of 'how will Brexit affect the economy' is too open, has too many variables to say if it will be positive or negative. If you are firmly in one camp or the other then you will believe the forecasts that support your view. Impossible to say who is right and so let's ignore this point.

EU regulations. If we want to sell into the EU then our goods need to adhere to any EU regulations. Fact. Whether we are In or Out. So another red herring. Some of the other Directives such as reducing emissions etc are a global issue and not some idea dreamt up by the EU. But then again other are..like that daft Cookie Law and that equally daft directive discouraging reward schemes on credit cards.

Comes back to Paulm's paragraph above. Mmmmmm :-k

 

[slimshady]

If we vote leave, will Tesco still stock Evian water, Grolsch beer, Parma ham etc.
Will Saudi Arabia (and others) still sell us Petrol, buy fighter jets, etc.

Alex.

 

[paulm]

......
Seems to me that fundamentally it is an exceedingly poor idea to mortgage your trust and future well being of yourselves and future generations to an unelected, unaccountable massive quango with a heavily socialist agenda, that has a substantial track record of serial incompetence, corruption and wide ranging and self serving agendas and heavily biased and exceedingly poor political decision making.

....!

Damn you, Paulm. ..just when I thought I'd had things clear in my own mind, this does strike a chord with me. I'm now back on the fence...veering towards Leave.

To my mind, the question of 'how will Brexit affect the economy' is too open, has too many variables to say if it will be positive or negative. If you are firmly in one camp or the other then you will believe the forecasts that support your view. Impossible to say who is right and so let's ignore this point.

EU regulations. If we want to sell into the EU then our goods need to adhere to any EU regulations. Fact. Whether we are In or Out. So another red herring. Some of the other Directives such as reducing emissions etc are a global issue and not some idea dreamt up by the EU. But then again other are..like that daft Cookie Law and that equally daft directive discouraging reward schemes on credit cards.

Comes back to Paulm's paragraph above. Mmmmmm :-k

Always thought you would come back Roger, welcome and please do stay, with Brexit that is :lol:

Leaving and/or hiding stuff till immediately after the vote concerns me also and I think is consistent with the EU and politicians approach of misleading us in the past.

The European army, even if we don't have to join, we'll almost certainly have to contribute to financially either directly or indirectly I would expect, as well as it under mining NATO and generally be unnecessary, unhelpful and inefficient duplication.

I am concerned that Cameron is also side stepping the possibility of mass immigration from Turkey. We are told Turkey are years away from being admitted to the EU yet talks seem to be underway to fast track it which suggests otherwise. Isn't it the case that large numbers of Turkish citizens will be granted the right to free movement in the EU imminently anyway, before and without Turkey being formally admitted ?

I don't know what other surprises await us as soon as we are done voting if we stay in, I'm pretty sure there will be more.

Probably just me being paranoid though, I haven't got the time or energy to check out all the possibilities and details, but history tells me not to trust and be too optimistic where the EU is concerned !

 

[paulm]

If we vote leave, will Tesco still stock Evian water, Grolsch beer, Parma ham etc.
Will Saudi Arabia (and others) still sell us Petrol, buy fighter jets, etc.

Alex.

Why wouldn't they ?

 

[Mark Hancock]

Can someone point me to The European Army?
All I can find is this
https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

 

[slimshady]

My basic comment was to suggest that the vast day-to-day buying/selling that "we the peoples of Europe" do over the years is more than the governments of Europe spend.

Will the UK's MEP's be out of a job as well. Such a shame.

PaulM. I'm definitely vote leave.

Alex.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Roger - yes I have to satisfy EU regs. to trade with the EU - but if I trade with Brazil, Mongolia, Vietnam, wherever, I don't have to comply with EU regs. - which at the moment as a member of the EU I do. I've seen a figure as high as 92% for the companies that do not export to the EU, but still have to comply with all regs.

 

[RogerS]

Roger - yes I have to satisfy EU regs. to trade with the EU - but if I trade with Brazil, Mongolia, Vietnam, wherever, I don't have to comply with EU regs. - which at the moment as a member of the EU I do. I've seen a figure as high as 92% for the companies that do not export to the EU, but still have to comply with all regs.

If I was, say, a manufacturing business and wanted to maximise my sales then I'd make sure that my products met EU regs. Simple as that. I wouldn't have two separate production lines.

But 92% of what, Phil? Mom'n'Pop shops?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

92% of businesses.

 

[iNewbie]

If we vote leave, will Tesco still stock Evian water, Grolsch beer, Parma ham etc.
Will Saudi Arabia (and others) still sell us Petrol, buy fighter jets, etc.

Alex.

I don't know. Allegedly Donald Trump says once he's in 501's won't be an issue again...

 

[RogerS]

92% of businesses.

But that covers everything from companies who will never ever export to car manufacturers.

 

[lurker]

roll on Friday morning
Then we can get back to arguing about sharpening

 

[Inoffthered]

I'm not sure it will be over by Friday.

This is an interesting article about what happened in Holland when they had a referendum (on a different topic) seems that their government and the EU ignored the electorates decision.

https://peterreedijk.wordpress.com/2016 ... -brussels/

"It also appears that the people who opposed the EU expansionist agenda were warned of threats of chaos and catastrophe, and warnings of a “continental crisis”. Added to which the pro EU factions resorted to character assassination and the opposition were painted as liars, clowns, senseless troublemakers, even racists" (as Juncker has said if all else fails lie)

This sounds like the Remainiac's campaign

 

[t8hants]

roll on Friday morning
Then we can get back to arguing about sharpening

You don't believe that do you, unless there is a massive majority to stay this will not be over.
We will stay as we have already seen examples of cheating and moving the goal posts, but the real clincher will be the huge postal vote that will suddenly tip the balance.

 

[Mark-numbers]

I am Out

I believe in immigration, but the controlled stuff............We are missing out on great people from the rest of the world due to the free movement within Europe.

I believe we need to take control of our finances again (if we remain then the Euro is a certainty)

I believe there are only half of the countries in Europe that are financially sound, so effectively we will prop up the other half.

I believe us Brits and anyone who has adopted our culture will always perform when our backs are against the wall.

I hate the fact that we have people who don't understand us and our identity controlling our day to day lives (MP's who have been born and bread into money are bad enough)

I say we need to take control of our laws, our rights and our sovereignty.

The EU will continue to buy from us, we will continue to buy from them (this won't really change)

We will start trading without penalty with the rest of the world.

If we brexit, that will be the end of the EU as we know it and to me that will be bloody brilliant.

 

[Inoffthered]

=D>

I am Out

I believe in immigration, but the controlled stuff............We are missing out on great people from the rest of the world due to the free movement within Europe.

I believe we need to take control of our finances again (if we remain then the Euro is a certainty)

I believe there are only half of the countries in Europe that are financially sound, so effectively we will prop up the other half.

I believe us Brits and anyone who has adopted our culture will always perform when our backs are against the wall.

I hate the fact that we have people who don't understand us and our identity controlling our day to day lives (MP's who have been born and bread into money are bad enough)

I say we need to take control of our laws, our rights and our sovereignty.

The EU will continue to buy from us, we will continue to buy from them (this won't really change)

We will start trading without penalty with the rest of the world.

If we brexit, that will be the end of the EU as we know it and to me that will be bloody brilliant.

=D>

 

[CHJ]

If you make due allowance for the fact that there is a commercial reason for this company highlighting some of the facts relating to the NHS there are some in depth facts that are worth a consideration.

 

[Woodmonkey]

The EU will continue to buy from us, we will continue to buy from them (this won't really change)

We will start trading without penalty with the rest of the world.

This will almost certainly change, at least the terms on which we trade will change. I was listening to a piece on radio 4 today, i only caught the end of it but they were saying that both the Germans and French have indicated that they would not be in favour of giving us a fast favourable trade deal should we leave, obviously they do not want to encourage other countries to follow our lead, in fact they will be looking to actively discourage it.

 

[Jake]

I you make due allowance for the fact that there is a commercial reason for this company highlighting some of the facts relating to the NHS there are some in depth facts that are worth a consideration.

Interesting indeed. The objection seems to be that quackery is not allowed. Quacks for Brexit!