Which Handsaw - confused terminology!

[pam niedermayer]

Bryon, sharpen those spokeshaves. I've used this technique many times on walnut and mahogany, mostly in rocking chairs, and it works a charm. I learned it from one of the UK's finest, Paul Sellers who's now in Texas at Homestead Heritage. I used a saw, chisel, and spokeshave only, and the result is very smooth. It was easy.

Pam

 

[MikeW]

Problem with a spokeshave for this is the 3" wide cut. A spokeshave isn't efficient for harder Euro Beech (sorry all, that's what it is from this side of the pond).

fwiw, I would do what has been suggested, mainly sawing down with a saw one already has, knocking the waste out and use a coarse rasp.

Now that the Marples is on its way, Byron, it will have applicability here and elsewhere. I've had my Marples bow saw for quite some time. Great piece of kit. But do one section at a time.

Take care, Mike

 

[Johnboy]

I bought one of these recently and it is great for flat or concave surfaces. I would still use the router though

John

 

[ByronBlack]

It was easy.

Pam

I bow to your superior skills Pam!! But your right, I shall most definitely get the spokeshaves fettled/sharpened or upgraded to a veritas one if there beyond salvation!

MikeW - you right about the beech being hard, I'm having a real tough time even planning it normally. Rasps are on their way though so that should help get the largest high spots down on the curves. Thanks for the advice!

John - I did look at those recently, but wasn't sure how effective they would be, what kind of finish do they leave?

 

[Anonymous]

one of the reasons why I got into the hobby was to learn the traditional ways and to slow down, take my time and work quietly and thoughtfully using only power-tools for the essentials (like milling).

Byron

I think you'll find that even 200+ years ago, the shakers' etc. cut things like this on a bandsaw (probably powered by a water wheel) and then finished them with hand tools.

I use hand tools all the time and have not built a project that didn't have every piece hand-planed for at least 10 years, but when i made my bench, i cut the feet on a bandsaw and then profiled them with spokeshave and sand paper glued to a block.

Don't lose sight of common sense in your quest for more handwork mate, find a nice balance and use the best tool for the hard parts of the job

 

[bugbear]

Also, just had a thought, how do you make a bow-saw without a bow-saw? Them curves look tricky!

One of (Saint) Charles Hayward's books covers this very point, assuming that the reason you're making a bowsaw is because you don't have one.

His technique is simple, and possible quicker than a bow saw. You make vertical (cross grain) relief cuts with a backsaw down to the marked line, split away the waste with a chisel, and then spokeshave to finish.

On a separate note, the curved upper surface on your bench feet could also be tacked using a skew rebate plane across the grain. In this approach it would actually be EASIER to work on two "ganged" feet, since planing short surfaces is difficult.

BugBear

 

[Johnboy]

Byron, they are coarse on one side and fine on the other, just need sandpaper afterwards. I have some of the cheap handstitched chinese rasps from Dick in Germany and they are good too.

John

 

[Scrit]

I think you'll find that even 200+ years ago, the shakers' etc. cut things like this on a bandsaw (probably powered by a water wheel) and then finished them with hand tools.

Maybe a frame saw, Tony, bandsaws aren't that old (1850s), but the Shakers did use water and wind powered machinery in the same way that the modern Amish woodworkers do - to reduce the hours and days of pointless drudgery

One of (Saint) Charles Hayward's books covers this very point, assuming that the reason you're making a bowsaw is because you don't have one.

His technique is simple, and possible quicker than a bow saw. You make vertical (cross grain) relief cuts with a backsaw down to the marked line, split away the waste with a chisel, and then spokeshave to finish.

Like that? Perhaps it is just natural to assume that one would cut into the waste to reduce splitting, etc. in the same way one would do this when chopping out a hinge recess. I think Byron should try that style of stretcher foot - it's much more flamboyant. Hayward suggests the use of a rasp and file followed by scraping to give the final shaping

Scrit

 

[pam niedermayer]

I bought one of these recently and it is great for flat or concave surfaces. I would still use the router though

John

Yeah, John, I've been using one of those (also called Shinto rasp) for several years now. Good tool.

Pam

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi John, I wouldn't say I was 'hardline' with regards to handwork, it's just that all the projects i've done so far have been primarily power-based, and one of the reasons why I got into the hobby was to learn the traditional ways and to slow down, take my time and work quietly and thoughtfully using only power-tools for the essentials (like milling).

I get a lot more satisfaction out of doing handwork than I do using power-tools ever since I went on a cabinet making course and learnt how to do dovetails by hand - to me, I get a lot more pride out of completing something by hand rather than using jigs/gadgets all the time, and this is a projects that I want to be an inspiration to me aswell as a useful tool.

Hi Byron,
Maybe hardline was too strong a word to use!
It's just that, much as I like the peace and tranquility of handwork, I do know when it's time to call 'time' and resort to power. Just as the Shakers and Amish workers do. In my case, older bones make power a necessity at times. Invariably, I finish my work with hand-tools, as I abhor glass-papers. However, to use handtools solely for their own sake, whilst laudable enough, seems to be something of a 'head-in-the-sand' approach. I am sure Tony Konovaloff would disagree! Yet, how many of us would, (Even if we could), shoulder an axe, go into a forest to fell our tree and then use a pit-saw?

And fwiw, I had it that the circular saw was invented by a female Shaker. How true that is I don't know!
Regards and enjoy your woodworking.
John

 

[ByronBlack]

HI John,

I totally understand your reasoning, thats why I invested in a P/T and use that for all primary milling as I find doing that by hand above and beyond, but something like this - i.e. a bit of shaping; I don't feel is a head in the sand approach. I could make the kerf cuts, chisel out and smooth with rasps probably as quick as it would take me to remove my router from the table, fit the cutter, make a template, clamp the work, set the depth, route one side, turn it over and route the otherside, and then clean up with sandpaper to remove the route marks.. that seems more convuleted for the sake of a power-tool approach when a hand-tool approach makes more sense, well to me atleast

However, if I had a bandsaw, then I would happily do it that way as for some irrational reasoning I can't explain, it appeals to my sensibilities more than a router..

 

[Anonymous]

You could do it all by hand but you'd need body of Popeye especially for the planing. P/T saves probably 75% of the work. Ripping by hand is also a strong person's game - if you want to be quick and effective that is.
Spinach everybody?
Having ripped and P/Ted after that doing all by hand becomes very attractive. I don't quite know quite why but it also takes you back up the slope - using fewer tools well, becomes a priority.

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Jacob, I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're agreeing with me and making the point I was trying to make earlier: i.e once all the machining is done it feels right to do the rest of the project by hand.

 

[Anonymous]

Jacob, I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're agreeing with me and making the point I was trying to make earlier: i.e once all the machining is done it feels right to do the rest of the project by hand.

Yes I'm agreeing, though for me doing much by hand is usually a treat but there's often an excuse!

cheers
Jacob

 

[Scrit]

However, to use handtools solely for their own sake, whilst laudable enough, seems to be something of a 'head-in-the-sand' approach.

Hi John

Personally I blame the Arts & Crafts movement - all this hand work for the sake of it which even in its' day so few could actually afford. :roll:

..... and then use a pit-saw?

Especially when you realise that the underdog (the guy in the pit pulling down and guiding the cut) often went blind doing his job :shock: So there are some extremely good reasons for not doing things the "traditional" way at times. As you say, the trick is to find a level you're comfortable with

And FWIW, I had it that the circular saw was invented by a female Shaker. How true that is I don't know!

Oh-oh! Another one spreading the great American myth....... We know better in the UK, the first recorded user of the circular saw (in 1781) was one William Walter Taylor and even Marc Brunel had circular saws in use by about 1805, some 5 years before the good sister. Here's the real story (from the UKWS archives)

Scrit

 

[bugbear]

HI all galoots,

I've been searching around the web for a saw that will allow me to cut this profile:

Thats a side view, and the material i need to cut it in is 3" square beech. I don't want to do this with a power-tool so I need to know which saw is the best option.

Oh, BTW, if you do try to use a narrow bladed hand saw for this cut, do some practise. It's easy to assume that the saw blade will stay straight and vertical, like a powered bandsaw. As such, tracking the marked line on the front of the stock will produce the result you want.

In practise, it's extremely easy for the blade to not be "normal" to the curve, resulting in the cut on the "back" side not being the same as the front.

Try following a smooth curve in 1" thick pine with a coping saw and you'll see what I mean.

BugBear

 

[ByronBlack]

BB - thanks for the tip!

I do have some 2" offcuts of the beach that i'll be using to make some test cuts and see whats what. It's taken me an age to get this far with the milling/planing so I really dont want to mess this one up

I've just taken delivery of my new chinese rasps so i'm looking forward to seeing how they work. For the money, they certainly feel and look good quality.

Hopefully my Bowsaw will turn up today or tomorrow!

 

[Anonymous]

Those Chinese rasps are great BB, I use them to shape my planes and they make short work of the job

 

[ByronBlack]

They've arrived!!

I got the fine and extra fine cabinet rasps - tested them out on my desk here at work, they work great!! Just got to resist the temptation to start rasping curves in my works furniture

Also my bowsaw has turned up - very good condition! I also got a couple of other small goodies with my order:

A nice Gardener Skew mouthed rebate plane (1917) for tarting up tenons and such like, and a nice lump of Zebrano from woodworking heaven - I plan to make a chisel and block/chamfer plane with it!

Looks like tonight i'll mostly be cutting curves!

 

[bugbear]

A nice Gardener Skew mouthed rebate plane (1917) for tarting up tenons and such like,

That might be interesting for your curve, as I said earlier.

BugBear