When did the world go mad for Festool?

[pcb1962]

Festool are innovators taking hand power tools to the next level. Competitors are now bringing copies to the marketplace at lower price points so products like the track saw are available to a wide audience.

Festool have cleverly created a brand, which is at a higher price point to the rest of the market. A high price point in itself makes the product more desirable. If Festool lowered its prices it would lose its exclusive image at the top of the market. It will be interesting to see if the other market players catch up

Remember that innovation requires investment in R&D, and that doesn't come cheap, especially in a country like Germany, so the high prices do not necessarily mean they're making large profits

 

[woodpig]

Festool don't charge high prices just because they can. When you buy a tool from Festool you're paying for German workers paid €20 an hour, free private health care and free lunches. When you buy other brands manufactured in the Far East the workers there are only on a couple of Euros an hour.

 

[Doug B]

I'm guessing those who baulk at paying for a Festool track saw will be apoplectic at the £2000 + price tag of the new Mafell self driven PSS3100SE track saw :lol: :lol: :lol:

There are plenty of brands that are as expensive or dearer than Festool it does make me wonder why one brand should cause such consternation, when's the Hilti backlash gonna start (hammer)

 

[MMUK]

Hilti? Completely different scope in terms of target consumer. Hilti are more industrial biased.

Having said that, they are very much a premium price and in some cases a pita when it comes to consumables with their unique fittings.

Line up for Hilti bashing (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) :wink:

 

[Doug B]

There's quite a lot of crossover particularly in Hilti's cordless range but my recent attempts at finding an online price for a couple of items proved fruitless, even in the bad old days of price fixing at least you could get a online price for Festool

 

[No skills]

Doug, I thought their website had prices for most tools nowadays?

 

[yorkshirepudding]

I am 67 years old and have only just taken up woodworking. I am reluctant to call myself a joiner but do have aspirations. Using Festool tools has enabled me to make items I couldn't have even contemplated previously. I don't have time to do a 5 year apprenticeship. I also have a Leigh dovetail jig and have also discovered the wonders of pocket hole jigs.
These "tools" enable me to produce work I can be proud of and in many instances of similar appearance to professional items. Without them I'd still be spending my money on motorbikes. ;-)
What's wrong with that?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

nothing whatsoever is "wrong" with that. There will doubtless be some dyed in the wool joiners/cabinetmakers who did a time served apprenticeship working 26 hours a day down 't mill for tuppence every four years who will look down their noses at this but it is whats been happening in many industries over many decades as the forces of technology/innovation and cheap far Eastern labour coalesce to take away many of the barriers to entry.

It enables DIY'ers who want to push the boundaries beyond skirting and architrave to stretch themselves into furniture et al and can get a real sense of satisfaction that albeit on an amateur level...they are a maker. A very noble goal in my opinion and I will happily co-exist with some old fashioned skills and new technology to help me get to the end result. The output wont be anywhere near as well crafted as a professional but since it probably wont enter the commercial world as it'll be made for home, family or friends then who cares.

 

[Rhossydd]

....The output wont be anywhere near as well crafted as a professional......

That's a rather a bold statement. I've seen outstanding work from amateurs that's every bit as good as 'professionals' work.
It may take very much longer, but without the need to work to deadlines and budgets allows dedicated non-professionals to achieve exceptional standards in all sorts of craft fields.

A point well made by James Krenov in his books.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I'm sure you have...but it will be the exception not the rule because professional cabinet makers will have put so many more hours into any given operation that they cant fail to be better at it. The old adage applies, practice makes perfect. If you were to randomly pick 100 amateurs versus 100 professionals and objectively examine the quality of their output, are you suggesting the amateurs would be superior?

 

[Rhossydd]

If you were to randomly pick 100 amateurs versus 100 professionals and objectively examine the quality of their output, are you suggesting the amateurs would be superior?

No, read what I write, not what you think I might mean.

All I've said it that you should automatically write off non-professional work as inferior.

 

[condeesteso]

I'll go back to page 1 if I may, and Random orbital Bob: "This is easily as much to do with status as it is to do with quality".
I think that is it - nailed it, let's say. In the premium you pay, some of that is quality and design innovation (or smart-thinking), and some is just a premium for a desirable brand. Basically, I think they are good, but not that good.
I have a Kapex and it is very good indeed, but not twelve hundred quid good.
Hats off to Festool as much for their smart marketing as for their excellent products... as someone else said it tells you a lot when a brand starts producing merchandise (T-shirts, hats etc). For the most part I get along fine outside of the Festool Club.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

If you were to randomly pick 100 amateurs versus 100 professionals and objectively examine the quality of their output, are you suggesting the amateurs would be superior?

No, read what I write, not what you think I might mean.

All I've said it that you should automatically write off non-professional work as inferior.

It's splitting hairs, my point wasn't aimed at denigrating every piece of amateur work as inferior to every piece of professional, it was a broad observation. I stand by it 100%, the output of the pro will, on balance be better than a non pro, that holds true in every industry. But for the avoidance of doubt....yes amateurs are quite capable of producing excellent quality and should in no way be offended by a generic truth which proposes that professional cabinet makers are actually better at producing cabinets than non professionals! It's also true that professional guitarists are generally better than non.....professional footballers are generally better then non.....as I say the rule and not the exception.

 

[Doug B]

it tells you a lot when a brand starts producing merchandise (T-shirts, hats etc).

What does it tell you?

I have a Makita coat, Metabo gloves & used to have a few shirts made by several power tool manufacturers some who's tools I've never owned. As far as I can see most of the recognised brands have their own merchandise it makes good financial sense, sell someone a shirt with your name on & get free advertising when they wear it.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

It tells you they have a marketing department.

 

[Doug B]

It tells you they have a marketing department.

Don't they all?

 

[condeesteso]

It tells me this is a dead thread =D>

 

[woodpig]

We are all welcome to our own opinions and I respect yours Bob but I think your statement about Amateur and Professionals is far too wide sweeping. I've refurbished the bathrooms in the last two houses we've had and and done most of the work myself, I would never have employed a tiler. The tiling work I've done as an Amateur was far superior because I had the luxury of being able to take my time. I have to add I've seen some horrendous "Professional" tiling over the years. It's not just tilers either, I've seen some very poor work done by plumbers, electricians and kitchen fitters. You've made a classic mistake of assuming that just because someone charges for their work they can do a good job! The next thing I expect you'll say is if "they" can't do a good job then they won't be in business long but sadly that isn't true either! There are lots of chancers out there and many members of the public don't know what a good job looks like anyway.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Alas, there are many chancers out there. I'm really not trying to do down amateurs, perhaps the statement is a bit broad but the intention wasn't to hammer the non pro. I am one after all

 

[n0legs]

Give me a keen amateur over a complacent professional any day.