Waterstones or paper?

[jordec66]

Hi all , I've just ordered a mk 2 Veritas honing guide but i'm unsure as to what is the best medium to
use it with. I've been researching waterstones and WH paper and glass , I really want to acheive a good
sharp edge mainly to chisels (narex at home , stanley on site) and my plane blades , up until now I have been making do with
stanley guide which is in tool box for on site and Trend Fast track (which is ok for maintaining an already keen edge , but that's about it) . I really don't know whether to buy waterstones or 3M and glass , any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

[Doug B]

PM sent.


Cheers.

 

[Jeff Gorman]

A look at 'A Personal Note' (at the bottom of the page) at http://tinyurl.com/6kzrdnm might help you to make up your mind.

Jeff
http://www.amgron.clara.net

 

[Peter Sefton]

First off I think the Veritas MK2 is great :!:
Then to the very personal views of which sharpening medium to use.
In my workshop we have all types for students to try - Norton and natural Arkansas oil stones, DMT and Eze lap diamond which would be great for site work. Japanese water stones both King Ice Bear and Toshi (King are better) and then 3M lapping films.

Some people swear by water stones, I gave my first one away to an apprentice who worked for me some 20 years ago because I found it a time consuming faff and very soft. They have improved but do still need work to keep them in tip top condition, flattening every time you use them, soaking in water 10 minutes before use and drying after, to stop the finer grades going soft. But they are relatively inexpensive to buy and are quick cutting.

I tend to find after my students try them all (types above) they gravitate towards scary sharpening. We do find this one of the best ones to be using, keeps all your tools flat and if you work down through the grits you may not need to buy yourself a grinder. Depending on how fine a micron you work to, the edge just gets better and better. Workshop Heaven recommend you cut a sheet into 3 strips – I prefer to cut the sheet in half length-wise which gives you much longer strokes with your MK2.

Hope this helps Peter

 

[woodbloke]

I tend to find after my students try them all (types above) they gravitate towards scary sharpening. We do find this one of the best ones to be using, keeps all your tools flat and if you work down through the grits you may not need to buy yourself a grinder. Depending on how fine a micron you work to, the edge just gets better and better. Workshop Heaven recommend you cut a sheet into 3 strips – I prefer to cut the sheet in half length-wise which gives you much longer strokes with your MK2.

Agreed, but being a parsimonious sort of soul, I cut my 3M films into four strips width-wise as it fits the Kell III guide much better - Rob

 

[jordec66]

Thank you for your very informative replies to my quandry , particularly peter. I can now make a
confident and informed choice.

What a brill forum!

 

[jimi43]

I would support the 3M Scary Sharp system....whichever way you cut it.

But I love my natural waterstones...the coticule and Charnley being beautiful just as tools...they are so tactile and satisfying to use. But for every suggestion for one system there'll be 100 others that different people prefer.

One interesting thing is the quality of the grinding stage does affect how hard or easy the honing becomes...whether you do it by hand or jig....paper, stone or witchcraft! :mrgreen:

Grinding for me was a pain until I got a fine wide wheel for the Creusen and then the Tormek needs no introduction. Since I have just received the latter from a very dear friend....I think the Tormek beats the Creusen entirely because you don't have to worry about losing the temper of the steel.

Either process leaves a wire burr which is child's play to remove and achieve a super cutting edge. Start with poor grinding and you have your work cut out to begin with.

Jim

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi guys I have been experimenting with various lubricants on Scary sharp, what do you find works best :?:

 

[jimi43]

Hi guys I have been experimenting with various lubricants on Scary sharp, what do you find works best :?:

Camelia Oil

Jim

 

[ali27]

I did not like working with paper. Working on good
waterstones is more fun IMHO. The only thing you
would need is a way to flatten your waterstones
correctly. Diamond stone is good for this.

If you are going to buy waterstones, I would advise
you not to buy soft waterstones. They dish very
quickly and hence require a lot of flattening.

Naniwa Chosera, Shapton professional are good
brands for waterstones. A 1000 and 8000 is all
you require. Some prefer a middle stone as well.

The Chosera and Shapton Professinal 1000 grit
are both good stones. The Shapton is cheaper,but
thinner. The chosera stones are very expensive in the
higher grits, so I would avoid them, unless you don't
mind paying 100-150pounds.

Ali

 

[woodbloke]

Hi guys I have been experimenting with various lubricants on Scary sharp, what do you find works best :?:

Camelia Oil

Jim

Jimi, Camilla Oil :-" would work well, as would any type of lubricant, but the thicker the lube, the less aggressive is the cut on the films. I use paraffin ('cos it's cheap and I like cheap) but I know others who use Lamp Oil (Alf) which is basically paraffin and WD40 is also good to use (but more spendy) Any thin, hydrocarbon lube will work well on the films...another one that springs to mind is sowing machine oil. At the end of the jour, as ever, use whatever you find best for your particular usage - Rob

 

[jimi43]

Agree Rob...the reason I like Camelia Oil the best is that it smells fantastic...keeps my hands that do dishes soft and is light. It also protects the metal and does not affect finishes.

The only downside on the proper stuff is it costs a bit but I still have a bottle I bought from Matthew months ago...and that has been syphoned by the missus for her wrinkles.

Jim

 

[Peter T]

Just a thought, if you plan to use this system for site work, won't a sheet of glass be rather impractical?

FWIW, I use waterstones, DMT stones and 3M film. At the moment I'm tending to use the DMT stones down to the finest available and then following up with the 0.3 micron 3M film on a granite surface plate for a fine polish.

The Norton waterstones are good, but a bit messy, and the coarse ones, 120 and 1000, need constant flattening, although probably not a much as the Japanese waterstones.

The large area DMT stones are very good and I can't find any particular drawbacks, except perhaps the price.

The 3M film is also very good but is relatively easy to tear and, obviously, needs to be stuck to a flat surface.

Good luck,

 

[AndyT]

I've also been getting good results from the WH 3M films stuck on glass. As my piece of thick float glass is quite large, I use whole sheets - three fit side by side. Plenty of room, and no tendency to wear out the middles. Also, I get a whole sheet width accessible on the edge of the glass, which is good for backs of blades.

As for lubricant, I use plain water in a garden spray. This sluices away the slurry very effectively and cleans up easily.

It also wins me the prize for being cheaper than anyone else!

 

[jimi43]

Don't you use Evian Andy? :mrgreen: 8)

Jim

 

[Peter Sefton]

On my 3M films we have been trying Paraffin which we also use on Ali oxide PSA backed sheets for cleaning and flattening old planes (and new ones sometimes)
We have used WH honerite Number 1 which is a low viscosity honing fluid used for oilstones which is a clean alternative to camellia oil for scary sharpening and works well 8)
But I am also very keen on water as AndyT is. Its free, clean to use and doesn’t affect your skin, I also like it because we are using Diamond and Japanese water stones, if we have several different fluids on the sharpening station someone is bound to use the wrong bottle, this way no harm done

 

[Mike Wingate]

I have tried all the methods and use diamond stones followed by ceramic stones. I have a number of Norton Oil stones which I rarely use. I tried rubber stones impregnated with TC, the shaped stones were great for turning and carving tools. I have a variety of DMT and EzeLap stones, big and flat, finishing off with 8000 ceramic stones and round ceramic sticks. I have used scary sharp with my Stanley 200 blade holder on glass, slow and hot. I have a 6" Elu grinder with a white wheel, and a Tormek. I use leather strops on some tools. Planes I strop on my hand.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I use leather strops on some tools. Planes I strop on my hand.[/quote]

I am not the only one then, the old ways are sometimes the best :!:

 

[Trizza]

I personally didn't get along well with paper, but thats just me. These days I use DMTs exclusively, and I'm very happy with my purchase. I also have a metal lathe so the DMTs are fantastic for honing the HSS lathe tools as well.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I personally didn't get along well with paper, but thats just me. These days I use DMTs exclusively, and I'm very happy with my purchase. I also have a metal lathe so the DMTs are fantastic for honing the HSS lathe tools as well.

Did you use the PSA or glue down your self, I also like the DMTs so quick,so easy I use the 11" works well with the Veritas MK2.