Waterstones or paper?

[Jacob]

Ere's a good idea then;
Buy WD40 in industrial quantities at industrial prices.
Add colour (darkish sherry tinges?) add scent (think roast beef, fish n chips, joiner's armpits, whatever turns you on).
Bottle (nice tins even better).
Nice label with info - "10 year old honing fluid matured in oak casks".
Sell it in small tins but at twice the price of a good malt whiskey.
And it'd still be cheaper than Honewrong!!
F me I could be rich!

 

[matthewwh]

You're supposed to put a few drops on the stone man!

Not drink it and then go all entrepreneurial on us!!!

Seriously though, all the above alternatives are non-drying so they will still leave the surface of your stone sticky - making it a dust magnet and trapping swarf and debris.

Granted, 3in1, WD40 etc offer limited barrier protection against corrosion, they do not however contain electrochemical corrosion inhibitors, which are more reliable and don't need wiping off before you next use the tool.

You won't see a lot of difference on the first go unless you've flushed all of the old clag out of the surface properly - otherwise you are just diluting what's already there. Maybe a better test would be two identical freshly resurfaced stones (or even two sides of the same stone) used alternately and see which one is cutting better after a couple of months use.

 

[Jacob]

.....electrochemical corrosion inhibitors, ......

are very wonderful (I imagine) but as I have never left my tools in a pond I have never felt the need.
Rust is caused by water. Not many people know this. Apparently many think it's caused by lack of "electrochemical corrosion inhibitors". :roll:

No but seriously - WD40 - you know it makes sense!

 

[matthewwh]

Jacob you are such a wonderful philistine, where would we be without you?

Actually rust is caused by the presence of an electrolyte - usually water vapour, preferably salty, allowing ions to pass from one surface to another. Futz with the abilty of ions to use said electrolyte and sorry sir, no ticket, no travel. Barrier protectants are like a picket line at the bus stop - fine whilst they work, but if the little tinkers get through you will end up with pitting at the point of entry. (and WD40 is closer to a picket line organised by Arthur Daley than Arthur Scargill) Electrochemical protectants just lock the doors of the bus - job done.

In fairness you are a bad example for corrosion because you have old, seasoned tools, use them regularly and use barrier protectants. Take the opposite example of someone starting out with new tools, who may only use them once a fortnight and the benefits of investing in a few drops of advanced corrosion inhibitors begin to look like a very cheap insurance policy. Freshly exposed surfaces, like the ones you produce when honing, are more chemically active than seasoned ones, and so require a little more care.

 

[LuptonM]

Sharpening with the PSA backed paper is very fast and very convenient since all grits are on one piece of glass. I thinks its best to spend the most money on methods of grinding the blade rather than sharpening it as that is more time consuming

I sure 3in1 will work as a rust inhibitor as rust needs both water and more importantly oxygen to form rust, so might have to agree with Jacob on this one. However no matter what u put on your blades, I think where u store your tools is most important. Thats why I usually store the most expensive items in my wardrobe rather than say the garage or the small leaky wooden shed at the bottom of the garden

PS: still think the Kell mk2 guide rocks

 

[Jacob]

WD40 actually is rocket science :shock: i.e. produced by the Rocket Chemical Company for keeping nuclear missiles rust free! Must be good.

 

[jimi43]

There is no way on earth I am putting 3in1 on my tools and then transferring it all over the stock to block the finishes. WD40 is 40 attempts at producing the spawn of the Devil. Horrible stuff...except on yer bike and ignition.

Since Jacob's review Matthew....I am seriously considering Honerite in my next WH order.

He is a great ambassador for you!

Jim

 

[Jacob]

There is no way on earth I am putting 3in1 on my tools and then transferring it all over the stock to block the finishes.

Well don't then! I don't either. Everybody else seems to be into squirting stuff all over their tools. I don't. I do use it for honing.

WD40 is 40 attempts at producing the spawn of the Devil. Horrible stuff......

What's so horrible about it? There's nothing particularly attractive about it certainly, except that it is quite useful and does much the same as Honerite but at a fraction of the price.

 

[Jacob]

.....I think where u store your tools is most important. Thats why I usually store the most expensive items in my wardrobe rather than say the garage or the small leaky wooden shed at the bottom of the garden....

Well exactly. Or a polythene bag if you are really stuck. If that sounds too simple think of it as a "non-electrochemical corrosion inhibitor" :shock:
No sense at all in spraying expensive gunk all over them.

 

[bugbear]

.I am seriously considering Honerite in my next WH order.

At the risk of being cheap and practical, I've always (since I read it) followed the advice in Jim Kingshott's book on sharpening. Get engine oil and white spirit (both a good deal cheaper than any of the other exotica listed in this thread) and mix then to adjust viscosity. The desired viscosity may vary with the particular stone(s) you use, but trial and error isn't rocket science.

I have 3 in one, WD40 and plusgas in my workshop, and regard them all as useful, but pricy commodities.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Last time I looked in a Poundland, they had 100ml cans of 3 in 1 for a pound each, which seem to be £3 - 4 elsewhere.
Hope this is useful to some of you.

 

[barkwindjammer]

#1 Honerite-Will be a blended end product, made from what ?

 

[jimi43]

Personally I am partial to waterstones as my grandfather raised me on them. But you have to be careful you don't wear only a certain part of the stone, its kind of tricky at first.

I am starting to learn how to use and cherish natural waterstones now..quite by accident...

I am especially keen on understanding the range of available equivalent grits...the hardness.....

I may have found a slope that is relatively cheap if you are patient.....and started quite a collection....

Clockwise from the Yellow Box....Yellow Lake Welsh "Oilstone", another Yellow Lake Welsh Waterstone...softer, old Belgian Coticule, Charnley (Charnwood) Forest hone, a very old Belgian coticule, an I.O. Shen Marstergrade dual grit synthetic whetstone, a Wachita oilstone, another Yellow Lake hone and finally...um...yet another Yellow Lake hone...

The key to these stones is to generate a slurry...release the abrasive minerals. In most cases these are garnets embedded in a soft sandstone or slate. It really is amazing how much the grit size and hardnesses vary, even amongst samples of the same stone.

Some are really fast..as fast as a diamond stone in removing metal and you actually see the water slurry darken as the metal particles are removed. Others feel as if they are not working at all until you look at the results...which are highly polished bevels.

One thing they all have in common...they wear down and it is far easier to re-establish a flat lapped and blemish free surface after each use...than to try to flatten the stone after much use and deformity.

The pleasure that using these natural stones gives is that they all have their own characters...far nicer than having consistancy in my opinion.

Jim

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Jordec...

Welcome aboard. Hope you got your query answered.

FWIW, I always used oilstones, but they were messy. Then I found water-stones.
They also make a mess, and you have to be careful to dry the irons well to keep rust away. However, I found they cut much faster than anything else I had used.
Now, I use just two. One 8000 grit for honing and one extremely fine Japanese stone for polishing. I was one for hand-honing, but as arthritis got me in the hands, I am having to use a guide.

You could use more stones than I do of course, but the main thing is to keep them flat. Then they work just as well as wet 'n dry for scary sharp. They are also much thicker than float glass, and they don't flex.

The biggest disadvantage I find is having a plastic container with water in it, lying around to store the stone.

For grinding I have a Tormek set-up, and I don't find I need anything other than that and the two stones. Thus, I don't use multi-grits wet 'n dry, and my planes are scarily sharp enough for me. I could shave with them, and I could shave 'in' them, if I had a mind to! :wink:
HTH

Regards

John

 

[jordec66]

Hi John , I got my answer in spades! I didn't realise there could be so many different opinions and
methods available.
I've now got my veritas jig and it's a godsend , I would recommend it to anyone. When I placed the order
I gave myself a little bonus of a veritas low angle block plane , I've fallen in love with it already.

declan.

 

[Benchwayze]

There you go Declan. You are on the slippery slope already...

Best of luck m'man!

Regards
John .

 

[Jacob]

Hi John , I got my answer in spades! I didn't realise there could be so many different opinions and
methods available.
I've now got my veritas jig and it's a godsend , I would recommend it to anyone. When I placed the order
I gave myself a little bonus of a veritas low angle block plane , I've fallen in love with it already.

declan.

Spend, spend! :roll:
You shouldn't "fall in love" with tools you know - that way madness lies. Do you get out much and meet people?

 

[woodbloke]

At the risk of being cheap and practical, I've always (since I read it) followed the advice in Jim Kingshott's book on sharpening. Get engine oil and white spirit (both a good deal cheaper than any of the other exotica listed in this thread) and mix then to adjust viscosity.

I like cheap and practical too :mrgreen: At Peter Sefton's gaff on Sat I tried the Honerite Gold stuff and found to be very good stuff indeed, but....a trifling spendy :shock: for a lubricating fluid. When I got home I decided to try BB's trick of mixing oil and paraffin (not white spirit) and I used some Halfords thick, gloopy cycle chain oil and watered it down with quite a lot of paraffin. Thus far, after a quick test on the 3M films, it seems to be better than just paraffin on it's own - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

Indeed... I used the same recipe, before my waterstone days. I am POSH and labelled it honing oil! It's better than visitors seeing me as a cheapskate! :lol:

John :mrgreen:

 

[Peter Sefton]

Motor oil and Paraffin, sounds so last century :lol: , but what we always use on our Norton oil stones, unless out on site (dare I say it) is WD40 for convenience.