Vitra bathroom fittings failing

[Jacob]

Vitra WHB, bath, WC previously fitted in our new house. Look new - must be just a year or two old.
All three failed!
Plug mechanisms in the bath and basin both broken, the bog doesn't flush properly - needs two flushes and the bog brush.
Are all Vitra products cr ap?
What's a good brand, without unnecessary plug mechanisms and with reliable flush.?

 

[Richard_C]

Probably not.

The fittings, waste etc, might not be Vitra. Sounds like the problem isn't ceramics, it's fittings the plumber has chosen to use to connect it all up which may, or may not, be out of a Vitra catalogue. May or may not be the cheapest stuff they could get from the wholesaler. Vitra have no control over that Often easy to replace.

Flushing problem unlikely to be the pan, so again not likely to be an issue with vitra design or manufacture,more likely poor installation, corrugated flex connector or similar, poor adjustment of water levels in cistern.

Bit like getting a puncture and saying all Fords are rubbish.

Most mainstream manufacturers have a huge range, with without lever wastes, tap holes etc. , a patient exploration of the ideal standard product list will give you answers, there are many others.

 

[Bingy man]

For traps and waste pipe fittings it’s always mc alpine for me solid and always good quality and worth paying the extra cost. Toolstations viva range is ok ball valves, and cistern fillers ( I’ve fitted many over the years , Thomas Dudley have been around for years the same items ,,unfortunately when I’m comes to basin waste fittings be it plug and chain , click clack , pivot etc etc the market is flooded with cheap imported crud but the cheapness means you simply replace it when it’s broke . There are more expensive waste fittings but often you are getting the same cheap crud but at an inflated price..

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for replies. Yes I've begun to get it.
Set water level higher and ordered Siamp diaphragm to correct slow fill.
Both mechanical plugs are operative but not as intended - the bath just lifts up by hand without the mechanism - the whb works mechanically but without the washer which cause it to jam, instead it now leaks away. OK for a very quick wash!
Can't tell if it Vitras fault for supplying with the kit as it was previous residents installation.
Too many clever designs! Nowt wrong with a standard plug on a chain!

 

[Bingy man]

The toilets I hate fitting are the ones where the outlet is concealed so you can’t see if it’s Leaking unlike the old school pans ..

 

[Spectric]

For syphons use Dudley, if you have a close coupled cistern then use the Dudley syphon that allows you to replace the diaphragm without removing the cistern first to get the syphon out.

https://www.thomasdudley.co.uk/tyde/products/adjustable-turbo-88/

You wont beat a good old fashioned plug on a chain, all these modern fandangled devices are just a right pita. If you want better quality look at Burlington or I believe Dudley still make a range. Visit a proper plumbers merchant and look at what they have on offer, Bristan make some solid waste brassware.

 

[Richard_C]

r and ordered Siamp diaphragm to correct slow fill.

Are you in a hard water area? I've replaced a couple of complete fill valves after about 4 years because of limescale build up around where the water comes out. The price of a whole new valve isn't bad.

 

[Jacob]

replaced diaphragm weeks ago. Seemed to work perfectly but no longer - keeps over filling.
Could be lime scale, deffo a hard water area.
Think I need to replace the flush mechanism, or at least get at it to see if it's blocked or something
Close-coupled cistern bolted directly to the toilet, how it to remove the cistern without pulling the whole WC away from the wall?

 

[Bingy man]

replaced diaphragm weeks ago. Seemed to work perfectly but no longer - keeps over filling.
Could be lime scale, deffo a hard water area.
Think I need to replace the flush mechanism, or at least get at it to see if it's blocked or something
Close-coupled cistern bolted directly to the toilet, how it to remove the cistern without pulling the whole WC away from the wall?

There are 2 wing nuts or 2 bolts within the cistern and these will basically bolt the cistern to the pan . Be prepared as they often rust in . They will extend through the cistern and emerge through the pan …So water off , flush cistern, disconnect overflow if fitted , remove any screws securing the cistern to the wall ,, soak up any remaining water in cistern with towels or rags , gently lift cistern away from wall and up off the pan . If screws rusted - hopefully they will just break off , you can buy replacement close couple kits and 100% replace the doughnut washer , you can now change the filler and syphon unit as reqd. . Make sure your new syphon is a half turn one so that next time it needs replacing you can just give it half a turn and it disconnects from the base meaning you don’t have to go through this procedure. Good luck and don’t drop the cistern onto the pan ( not that I’ve ever done that )
Edit some cisterns are only accessible by removing the entire pan and cistern as one unit and then follow above - these type will mean you will need to replace the pan connector before you reassemble..

 

[david.tamlaght]

on the flush question,i have 2 identical toilet pans with exact same internal flush gear.
one flushes fine ,the other usually takes several flushes .i ve tried everything and come to the conclusion the pan is badly moulded and a new comfort height is going in when i get time to install it.
my own house is always last.why?

 

[Jacob]

There are 2 wing nuts or 2 bolts within the cistern and these will basically bolt the cistern to the pan . Be prepared as they often rust in . They will extend through the cistern and emerge through the pan …So water off , flush cistern, disconnect overflow if fitted , remove any screws securing the cistern to the wall ,, soak up any remaining water in cistern with towels or rags , gently lift cistern away from wall and up off the pan . If screws rusted - hopefully they will just break off , you can buy replacement close couple kits and 100% replace the doughnut washer , you can now change the filler and syphon unit as reqd. . Make sure your new syphon is a half turn one so that next time it needs replacing you can just give it half a turn and it disconnects from the base meaning you don’t have to go through this procedure. Good luck and don’t drop the cistern onto the pan ( not that I’ve ever done that )
Edit some cisterns are only accessible by removing the entire pan and cistern as one unit and then follow above - these type will mean you will need to replace the pan connector before you reassemble..

Thanks for that. Two blobs of putty or something in bottom of cistern. Broke one off and seems to be a stainless steel bolt head with what could have be a wing nut but broken off. Looks like a total bodge. I wonder if I can pull it all away from the wall without taking off the cistern and disconnecting. Maybe just smash it and buy a new lav.

 

[Bingy man]

Thanks for that. Two blobs of putty or something in bottom of cistern. Broke one off and seems to be a stainless steel bolt head with what could have be a wing nut but broken off. Looks like a total bodge. I wonder if I can pull it all away from the wall without taking off the cistern and disconnecting. Maybe just smash it and buy a new lav.

There is always an element of risk taking them apart , the last one I fitted had stainless steel bolts and wing nuts so hopefully that will last longer . I mean who designs these set ups with steel bolts that will spend their entire life submerged in water as for replacing the it you can get a cheap toilet to go from most DIY outlets and plumbers merchant for around £70 which makes you wander at the cost of the syphon and a ball valve ..

 

[Spectric]

Close-coupled cistern bolted directly to the toilet, how it to remove the cistern without pulling the whole WC away from the wall?

Fit the right flushing mechanism as mentioned in post 6 and you will never need to disturb the cistern again to change the diaphragm.

 

[Bingy man]

on the flush question,i have 2 identical toilet pans with exact same internal flush gear.
one flushes fine ,the other usually takes several flushes .i ve tried everything and come to the conclusion the pan is badly moulded and a new comfort height is going in when i get time to install it.
my own house is always last.why?

When you say everything I assume new syphon and ball valve and the water supply is not restricted in any way - limescale is usually the culprit..

 

[david.tamlaght]

When you say everything I assume new syphon and ball valve and the water supply is not restricted in any way - limescale is usually the culprit..

Been like that from new some years back.both installed at the same time .prob the holes under the rim not formed right is my thinking.
they came with torbeck valves which didn,t work properly so swaped them out for short bent arm ballcocks.
cisterns fill no problem but that bad one just doesn,t have the correct flow into the bowl for some reason.

 

[Bingy man]

Been like that from new some years back.both installed at the same time .prob the holes under the rim not formed right is my thinking.
they came with torbeck valves which didn,t work properly so swaped them out for short bent arm ballcocks.
cisterns fill no problem but that bad one just doesn,t have the correct flow into the bowl for some reason.

I was wondering how a badly moulded toilet would affect the flush but that makes - add years of limescale into the mix . Old school high level cisterns never had these problems..

 

[david.tamlaght]

I was wondering how a badly moulded toilet would affect the flush but that makes - add years of limescale into the mix . Old school high level cisterns never had these problems..

those things could even deal with the john wyane toilet paper rough,tough and take no s+it

 

[Duncan A]

The modern flush valves are also easily affected by entrained dirt in the water. Can be a problem if the pipework outside/in the street has dirt in them. Don't expect your water company to be helpful in such an instance!
Duncan

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for info.
Looks like replacing (smashing) the cistern is only way to get at things for maintenance. Might as well just get a new bog altogether, but with access for maintenance etc.
Slightly mystified that the over filling only lasts for about a minute and then shuts off - without the float or valve lever moving at all.
This can't be bad at £80? https://www.screwfix.com/p/toilet-to-go-close-coupled-toilet-dual-flush-6ltr/78711

PS the plot thickens! Seems there is a 5mm dia washer somewhere https://community.screwfix.com/thre...lve-how-does-the-fill-valve-work.88780/page-2
Like a lot of things nowadays - seems to be over designed and short lived tat, difficult to maintain or repair.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for info.
Looks like replacing (smashing) the cistern is only way to get at things for maintenance. Might as well just get a new bog altogether, but with access for maintenance etc.
Slightly mystified that the over filling only lasts for about a minute and then shuts off - without the float or valve lever moving at all.
This can't be bad at £80? https://www.screwfix.com/p/toilet-to-go-close-coupled-toilet-dual-flush-6ltr/78711

PS the plot thickens! Seems there is a 5mm dia washer somewhere https://community.screwfix.com/thre...lve-how-does-the-fill-valve-work.88780/page-2
Like a lot of things nowadays - seems to be over designed and short lived tat, difficult to maintain or repair.

Dunnit! It was the little washer in the lever arm. Wouldn't have known it was there - more of a plug than a washer. Prised it out, turned it round, seems to work! I can **** again!
Design too clever by half. Seems to be a valve working another valve, but gives near silent fill and precise float height adjustment, when working as is supposed to.