Veritas PM-V11 plane irons for Stanley & Record
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DoctorWibble
Established Member
In all honesty I don't remember where that figure came from. Its been a while since I contemplated PMV. My bad.
Regardless £45 sounds a lot more reasonable. Decent old laminated blades can fetch £10-£20 on ebay and you can't be sure you're actually getting what you hope for. I guess if I was geared up already to handle hard steels and in the habit I might re-consider PMV at that price. If I actually needed a blade for a smoother. OTOH I don't enjoy sharpening and I'm not keen on learning a new method so there would remain reasons not to. For me at least.
So have a go. I for one would be interested to hear how you get on. Just watch the blade thickness point I made earlier in the thread. I have baileys with mouths so tight they wont even take a close cap iron with the frog as far back as the mouth allows and their current very thin blade. From memory the thinnest were maybe a mil thinner than the Veritas. Not that my memory is the last word in reliability! But if I've remembered that correctly the difference is potentially significant depending on your plane and predilection for taking a file to it.
Regardless £45 sounds a lot more reasonable. Decent old laminated blades can fetch £10-£20 on ebay and you can't be sure you're actually getting what you hope for. I guess if I was geared up already to handle hard steels and in the habit I might re-consider PMV at that price. If I actually needed a blade for a smoother. OTOH I don't enjoy sharpening and I'm not keen on learning a new method so there would remain reasons not to. For me at least.
So have a go. I for one would be interested to hear how you get on. Just watch the blade thickness point I made earlier in the thread. I have baileys with mouths so tight they wont even take a close cap iron with the frog as far back as the mouth allows and their current very thin blade. From memory the thinnest were maybe a mil thinner than the Veritas. Not that my memory is the last word in reliability! But if I've remembered that correctly the difference is potentially significant depending on your plane and predilection for taking a file to it.
Are those Tsunesaburo irons the same as Smoothcut? No longer cheap in the UK £36.80 plus P&P plus the dreaded customs duty and Parcel Forces cut if they catch you. I don't know why Stanley and Record can't make blades the way they used to or even the planes themselves, not a big enough market I guess. Had to laugh I have just refurbed a UK made Stanley Bailey 5 1/2 and the PM-V11 slotted in with a bit of a mouth clean up. Tried putting a standard Stanley blade in and it would not bed on the frog depth and lateral adjustment were terrible. Found that somebody had replaced the rivet on the lateral adjustment roller and left a little too much metal sticking up so the back of the blade was pivoting on it. Quick rub with a file sorted that.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
I used a Smoothcut blade in a LN #51 as part of the testing completed in a comparison with the Veritas Shooting Plane. In other words, shooting end grain.
The Smoothcut significantly outperformed the LN A2 steel in the #51. It is an excellent blade and, in my opinion, the best alternative to Veritas PM-V11. I believe that it is the same blade as Tsunesaburo.
Regards from Perth
Derek
The Smoothcut significantly outperformed the LN A2 steel in the #51. It is an excellent blade and, in my opinion, the best alternative to Veritas PM-V11. I believe that it is the same blade as Tsunesaburo.
Regards from Perth
Derek
You've clearly not tried a new Russian iron on the market, called the Politburo, outperforms them all.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Charles, I think that is just typical Commie propaganda. 
Regards from Perth
Derek
Regards from Perth
Derek
D_W":2n5xthh6 said:
Then they are good blades and I have used them, also called Samurai and I think Harima. Suggest reading veritas-pmv-ii-plane-blades-t70487.html Pretty much the same thing with the usual wrangling from the same suspects but the PM-V11 actually cost over 50 quid then with a much better exchange rate in favour of the UK.
swagman
Established Member
Charles, I think that is just typical Commie propaganda.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Love it!
swagman":o6r7s2sx said:
Without doubt they do seem to have the waterfront covered with regard to steels for various applications and woods. HAP 40 sounds like PM-V11 or maybe that should be vice versa?
Think the knife boys know what it is and the tool market is a lot smaller than that for kitchen knives. Might even be a PM designed and made in the US. I don't think it is HAP40 but it is quite corrosion resistant and mine self magnetise which is a pain.
In the genre I suppose.
On the other hand, Stanley and Record both sold HSS cutters in the Southern Hemisphere decades ago and Kunz still make them last I checked (Two Cherries too; see below). They are pricey, though. One has always had options, though wallet-stinging ones. If it were all about 'getting the work done' and suffering actual quantifiable shop inefficiencies then Kunz would have been a logical choice or source the Stanley and Record cutters through used tool dealers. It's amazing, isn't it, how one's needs change when a new product comes to market. It's what marketers call 'supply creating its own demand.'
Sources:
http://www.petermcbride.com/hss_stanley/
Two Cherries 45mm, 48mm, and 51mm HSS replacement irons:
https://twocherriesusa.com/product/hss-plane-iron/
On the other hand, Stanley and Record both sold HSS cutters in the Southern Hemisphere decades ago and Kunz still make them last I checked (Two Cherries too; see below). They are pricey, though. One has always had options, though wallet-stinging ones. If it were all about 'getting the work done' and suffering actual quantifiable shop inefficiencies then Kunz would have been a logical choice or source the Stanley and Record cutters through used tool dealers. It's amazing, isn't it, how one's needs change when a new product comes to market. It's what marketers call 'supply creating its own demand.'
Sources:
http://www.petermcbride.com/hss_stanley/
Two Cherries 45mm, 48mm, and 51mm HSS replacement irons:
https://twocherriesusa.com/product/hss-plane-iron/
CStanford":706pq4jb said:
Oldest iron I've seen is Revlo High Speed Steel that shows up in old infills (some of them actually used almost to the slot). I don't know exactly how old they are, but I wouldn't be surprised if close to 100 years. No clue what they are, but would guess T series high speed steel (same thing that was tried in razors). In razors, it's no contest - simple is best.
V11, IIRC, is a lot more like powdered 440C. HAP40 is nasty stuff - I can't think that there's a great deal of use for it in woodworking unless you somehow have a job planing wood with sand in it.
At any rate, people chase after ward parallel irons with large wallets open (I have had trouble getting them to make a few infill planes, they seem to top $100 if they're remotely clean). That might have to do with putting the original-looking iron back into expensive pre-war infills, though - by sellers of planes. I don't see anyone running to get the Revlo irons. Or the old high speed steel razors.
There is apparently a market for HSS plane irons comprised of people who can't/couldn't wait for boutique makers to get around to 'innovating.' These irons appear to have been in continuous production, by someone, for quite a number of decades. If you need durability you need it, whether or not it's ones pet or favorite manufacturer or not, no?
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
CStanford":1d4n53dk said:
HAP 40 is nothing like PM-V11, and PM-V11 is nothing like HAP 40. Thank goodness!
I have a chisel that Stu sent me in HAP 40. It is the hardest steel I have ever honed. It holds an edge nearly forever, but then you have to sharpen it. Stu described it to me as PM HSS.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
CStanford":31ru79gl said:
HNT Gordon make them for their own planes, and sell a lot of them in Oz.
In the tail end of the years they were in Australia, Stanley manufactured HSS blades for their planes. They are highly prized today.
You can still get them in Mujingfang planes. Damn good they are, too.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Germans apparently like them too.
CStanford":25cfv6lh said:
I wonder if there is literature for the german irons. I'd guess for plywood or construction work. Given that kunz was an East German company, the price is quite stiff!
Not sure about the stanley australia price, but I checked with some guy on the australian forum who said he'd found a bunch, and I guess had dispensed them for little or no cost. He was surprised there was a following for them now, but it has probably all to do with Brent Beach stating that they were the best irons he tested.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
A post script on the Mujingfang HSS (M2) blades ...
The one I have is 1 3/4" and looks like a Bailey blade, except the hole is at the other end. Neverthless, I can get it to work very well in a Stanley #3. I recall that the blades are quite cheap, and possibly available on eBay.
Regards from Perth
Derek
The one I have is 1 3/4" and looks like a Bailey blade, except the hole is at the other end. Neverthless, I can get it to work very well in a Stanley #3. I recall that the blades are quite cheap, and possibly available on eBay.
Regards from Perth
Derek
