Veritas PM-V11 plane irons for Stanley & Record

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Mike, the time he spent honing was simply moved to a different part of the day. Still, it was ten or so minutes worth of work at the most. It doesn't affect the argument one way or another when somebody does it. He could have gotten up at 3:00 a.m. and honed them when his children were in diapers. Doesn't change a thing. I'm not saying that Record irons don't need to be honed. I am saying that the differential in using an iron that lasts longer is completely insignificant in the rhythm of the day, whenever one chooses to start it.
 
woodbrains":1qi0ed3q said:
.... some people, some professionals, in fact, do find it desirable to not have to hone at inopportune times. ....
The time to hone is the point in use at which you decide that the tool needs a hone. There isn't a more opportune moment - otherwise you could find yourself wasting minutes honing things unnecessarily! :shock:
Similarly with sharpening pencils, blowing your nose, wiping your ****, making a cup of tea, etc.

Hope that helps.

some pendejo shooting videos in the last 45 square feet of what's left of his garage
:lol: What is a pendejo? (not a UK term)

PS found it - it's a single pubic hair! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_profanity
 
CStanford":2hrrrw5e said:
iNewbie":2hrrrw5e said:
CStanford":2hrrrw5e said:
I demo'd a PM-V11 chisel. Based on that demo, I'd say they aren't worth it, but it's moot anyway because everybody has a different measure of 'worth' as my previous posts address. Perfectly fine chisel but nothing to arrange a girl jumping out of a cake over.

Anybody with the need to scratch an itch is usually going to scratch it. I'd rather buy a dozen golf balls that promise 15 more yards in distance through the bag. They never do, but the manufacturer contorts the statistics from some machine that tells you they will and still meet USGA criteria for distance in a 'legal' golf ball. It's a bunch of marketing hoo-hah of course, but people do fall for it. I actually don't any more but admit to having been intrigued a time or two in the past. Pretty cheap intrigue though -- you still need golf balls on a much more frequent basis than you ever would a plane iron, so you spend five more bucks than you otherwise would have just to see. If you have a slow swing speed a ball that spins a little less will go farther but you can't make them stop on the green. A lot of people don't care, they just want to be able to say they can hit a seven iron 170 yards, It's better to hit it 160, and high, rather than 170 comparatively low and screaming through the green. There is no real trade-off. Better players buy a ball that spins they way they want it to and has an overall trajectory that fits their eye. Raw distance is not a problem. Same with a woodworker -- an iron that goes a little farther is not a game changer, well not unless a couple of 90 second honings avoided during a work session is considered a game changer. Surely, this can't be the case can it? That's all we're talking about, a couple or three fewer honings during any given day. Five to seven lousy minutes. Big. Fat. Deal.

And yet its a Big. Fat. Deal. for you someone else might do that. You'll be worrying about the glues they use, next.

In a regular working day that involves a good bit of planing (not all do!) you might save two or three honings. That's about seven minutes, ten tops, and not even every day. Again: Big. Fat. Flippin'. Deal. It's meaningless. Most people spend that much time changing the shop's music play list, text-messaging your wife, Twitter, Facebook, this forum, adjusting the thermostat, and stuff like that. The whole thing is a joke. It really is.

How can it be meaningless when it provides you with such entertainment value. Here you are 4 years later having said we won't be hearing about PM-VII in a year. I guess you derive as much pleasure from your posts as someone who likes to sharpen less cuz it makes 'em feel all warm and fuzzy. Both examples could be considered a joke. They really can.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... ost2102048
 
Or have we come to the point where a giant like Peters is now considered to be a piker because some pendejo shooting videos in the last 45 square feet of what's left of his garage informs us that anything less is a punt?

Who might that be, Charlie?

Skated right around George's opinion. Do you think he's not in the same class as Peters as a maker? You know he's actually more skilled and much more broad, though the wine might argue that he's not, I'm sure.
 
And yet its a Big. Fat. Deal. for you someone else might do that. You'll be worrying about the glues they use, next.

In a regular working day that involves a good bit of planing (not all do!) you might save two or three honings. That's about seven minutes, ten tops, and not even every day. Again: Big. Fat. Flippin'. Deal. It's meaningless. Most people spend that much time changing the shop's music play list, text-messaging your wife, Twitter, Facebook, this forum, adjusting the thermostat, and stuff like that. The whole thing is a joke. It really is.[/quote]

How can it be meaningless when it provides you with such entertainment value. Here you are 4 years later having said we won't be hearing about PM-VII in a year. I guess you derive as much pleasure from your posts as someone who likes to sharpen less cuz it makes 'em feel all warm and fuzzy. Both examples could be considered a joke. They really can.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... ost2102048[/quote]

Keep in mind that Charlie posted to someone's blog that he thinks Lee Valley is out to get him by lobbying to have him banned from forums (next thing you know, he'll tell us they're little green men). We know why he gets banned, though, and it has nothing to do with Lee Valley.
 
CStanford":2yztb7nu said:
No, George is not in the same class.

That's funny. The difference between the two of them is that there is nothing Peters has done that George couldn't do, but the other way around isn't close to being true.

And George has far better design sense.
 
D_W":1a33w841 said:
CStanford":1a33w841 said:
No, George is not in the same class.

That's funny. The difference between the two of them is that there is nothing Peters has done that George couldn't do, but the other way around isn't close to being true.

And George has far better design sense.

This sort of idiocy speaks for itself.
 
CStanford":3kueatqy said:
D_W":3kueatqy said:
CStanford":3kueatqy said:
No, George is not in the same class.

That's funny. The difference between the two of them is that there is nothing Peters has done that George couldn't do, but the other way around isn't close to being true.

And George has far better design sense.

This sort of idiocy speaks for itself.

You're thinking you're absolutely right more than other people think you're right. It's gotten you far, I see. Don't forget to pack your wife's lunch today.
 
Gents, this sort of thing has no place in a thread like this. Ad hominem is the resort of the lowest sorts, just sayin' (hammer)
 
David, are you talking about George Wilson, the retired instrument maker from Colonial Williamsburg? I guess you are, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there's another George you're talking about that made furniture and at the level and scale of Alan Peters' operation or somebody of similar stature. Can you clarify? Provide examples, etc.?

Peters was one of the most important designer/makers, of furniture, of the 20th century.
 
phil.p":1lznv3gw said:
:lol: We know from the header approximately how many pages the thread will run, where it'll end and who'll be left. Amazing! :lol:
The best thing to come out of it for me is a new word 'pendejo' so it hasn't been a complete waste of space.
I've added it to my list of words to use as often as possible whilst I can still remember what they mean. I've got 'rebarbative' and 'egregious' on the list but i might have to look up 'rebarbative' again. :roll:
 
Don't lock the thread! I have no idea what tangent we're on now but these pub style "arguments" are always fun.
 
I hope the op tries an iron if he's curious. It's basically a better version of a2, and if the trial iron seems like it's not worth it, there's little to be lost.

Even George (better than just a furniture maker) Wilson is quite fond of it.
 
I tried some once and I think my expectation was a little skewed. I thought it would be like 01 to hone based on the information and feedback I'd read, however it seemed very similar to A2. I'm unlikely to need anything more than 01 or older W1 stuff. The only replacement irons that have suited my needs have been the Ray Iles 01, they have a great range for common bench planes. Perhaps if I feel the need to shave a vast amount of "pendejo" PMV 11 could be just the ticket.

On a side note I do appreciate Charles' input. He does, from what I can tell, actually make stuff and has a wide range of skills. Without DW, Charles and Jacob it would much less informative and without input like theirs forums can become an echo chamber.
 
I did not realise that my post would unleash such passion. Thank you everyone for your opinions... and entertainment.

Reading such strong conflicted opinions did put me off for a bit, but I do think I'll take a punt next payday for my smoother plane to see for myself and form my own opinion... and I hope that doesn't offend anyone :wink:
 
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