Chisel and Plane Blade Honing Guide Angle Jigs with measurements; Veritas, Marples, and Eclipse.

[Eshmiel]

Thanks for your offer, feel free to drop in, but my edges are at last truly sharp so there are no issues on that front!
But I could show you how to sharpen things the easy way - it probably takes about 20 minutes to get the idea and another half hour to get good at it.
The main thing for you struggling sharpeners to get over is repeatedly telling yourselves that you can't do it! It's a bit like riding a bike - apparently training wheels actually slow down a kid's development, but once you've got it (without gadgets) it's for life.
How on earth would you manage without the gadgets if you found yourself on an urgent job with just a medium grit oil stone?

I try not to become involved with "urgent".

You may be right about my being over-wary of hand sharpening. I like the feeling of certainty awarded by me gubbins-things, as they work well and provide also a reason to read the likes of Brent Beach and Herr Kollerott.

Although I've ridden a bike probably well into a hundred thousand miles or more (still riding four of them, me) I'm still ever so wary of all sorts of cycling behaviours one may observe. On the other hand, I've developed a riding style that's not only safe but rapid and very enjoyable. I never bother with riding it with no hands or over the black ice, for example, even though I know fellows who can and do - and they still live - albeit with quite a few gravel-rash scars.

You still haven't "got" the attraction of WW gadgets, eh? There can be a lot more to woodworking than woodworking, see? For we amateurs and hobbyists at least. For me, time is not money and is not wasted as I phart about with a gubbins. Its play, just like the woodwork-proper.

***********
This discussion does beg the question: what other modern conveniences do you reject as false convenience? I have a few of those myself, with the smartphone (any phone, in fact) top of the list. I have spend decades also without a car as I see them as dangerous and polluting. Foreign holidays via aeroplanes? No thenk yew. Etc..

Presumably you are still walking everywhere in bare feet?

 

[BentonTool]

Thanks for your offer, feel free to drop in, but my edges are at last truly sharp so there are no issues on that front!
But I could show you how to sharpen things the easy way - it probably takes about 20 minutes to get the idea and another half hour to get good at it.
The main thing for you struggling sharpeners to get over is repeatedly telling yourselves that you can't do it! It's a bit like riding a bike - apparently training wheels actually slow down a kid's development, but once you've got it (without gadgets) it's for life.
How on earth would you manage without the gadgets if you found yourself on an urgent job with just a medium grit oil stone?

IMHO, There are virtues and merits to both methods...
As has been said before, do whatever works for you...
Or better yet, perhaps a mix of the two, as do I...

 

[bbtex]

No one can be a better Jacob than Jacob, who is an interesting fellow and without the sort of rancour expressed by some of his detractors. Well I like him, although I suspect he's not in need of being liked by everyone he meets. I notice that he doesn't flounce and pout when offered alternative views, unlike some.

I feel that I should be hearing you shouting ‘Who’s that trip trapping over my bridge?’

 

[Jacob]

........

You still haven't "got" the attraction of WW gadgets, eh? There can be a lot more to woodworking than woodworking, see? For we amateurs and hobbyists at least. For me, time is not money and is not wasted as I phart about with a gubbins. Its play, just like the woodwork-proper.

OK I accept that modern sharpening is pharting about.
Does this mean you'd switch to serious sharpening if the need arose; if you got a bit more serious about woodwork for instance?

***********
This discussion does beg the question: what other modern conveniences do you reject as false convenience?

A big subject.

Presumably you are still walking everywhere in bare feet?

No, nor with footwear re-imagined and designed by Veritas!

 

[Eshmiel]

I feel that I should be hearing you shouting ‘Who’s that trip trapping over my bridge?’

It that the splash of chum hitting the UKW waters? Yes, it is! But I feel that you should now row away with your barrel of rotted fish remarks to elsewhere, as I'm not biting. Jacob and I are having a conversation and your stinky splashing is distracting.

 

[Eshmiel]

OK I accept that modern sharpening is pharting about.
Does this mean you'd switch to serious sharpening if the need arose; if you got a bit more serious about woodwork for instance?

A big subject.

No, nor with footwear re-imagined and designed by Veritas!

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sea...sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25

I like the look of that golden beetle.

I do serious pharting about, me. It seems to produce some nice furniture, nevertheless. Mind, that's a matter of opinion and taste, probably.

Now, I will admit that since becoming obsessed with the spoons and bowls, involving axes, adzes, knives and gouges, I have been doing a lot of hand-stropping and even a bit of hand sharpening. It's easier with knives. On the other hand, the grinder has also had a rub or two at the bevels when those axes are reshaped from convex to scandi. It takes ages with a file and there are them facets that won't go.

Soon I'll be commissioning (lurverly word that, eh) 12 carving gouges. I may try to do one by hand but when all them facets appear on the bevel I'll blame you.

 

[paulrbarnard]

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sea...sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25

I like the look of that golden beetle.

Cough cough…. I have one.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sea...sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25

I like the look of that golden beetle.

Well blow me down I had no idea they actually did footwear!
The plot thickens!

I do serious pharting about, me. It seems to produce some nice furniture, nevertheless. Mind, that's a matter of opinion and taste, probably.

Now, I will admit that since becoming obsessed with the spoons and bowls, involving axes, adzes, knives and gouges, I have been doing a lot of hand-stropping and even a bit of hand sharpening. It's easier with knives. On the other hand, the grinder has also had a rub or two at the bevels when those axes are reshaped from convex to scandi. It takes ages with a file and there are them facets that won't go.

Soon I'll be commissioning (lurverly word that, eh) 12 carving gouges. I may try to do one by hand but when all them facets appear on the bevel I'll blame you.

What are these facets? I've never had them. Are they something to do with primary/secondary/micro bevels? Maybe time for the Veritas Mk 3? Or do your stones need flattening with another stone flattened by a third stone, or something along those lines?

 

[mwinfrance]

Paul ..re the cough cough golden beetle..would you perchance happen to also have the ice cleats..are they any good .. asking for Mme hers are wearing out ( size 37 ) over 10 years old, and appear to be made from unobtanium now here.

aside ..that site has pop ups on it's pop ups..like being chugged by the krishas used to be on Tottenham Court road back in the 70s

 

[mwinfrance]

Gouges, IME are easier to sharpen and best, if done often on a spinny disc of MDF with one's preference of abrasive "stuff" applied to its face and edge, next to where one is sculpting, and a block or blocks with all the appropriate profiles also suitably charged with the aforementioned choice of abrasive "stuff", next to that. You can make both items, discs and blocks, to suit your preferred style and size of gouges.You can also make blocks for the little gouges etc that you make yourself for when the thing that you need does not exist outside of your head.

Breton Spoon Seller ( circa 1900 ) for your delectation. Spoon Sellers used to do "door to door" as itinerant salesmen, and also sell on local Breton markets, making the spoons as they traveled from whatever wood they came across, they also made "specials" to order.Machines and imports did for them eventually.

 

[Jacob]

Gouges, IME are easier to sharpen and best, if done often on a spinny disc of MDF with one's preference of abrasive "stuff" applied to its face and edge,

Yes, and it takes seconds if they aren't too bad. Also for quick polish on bevels of other chisels, plane blades.
I've never looked at the LV web pages before. The gadgets are amazing - you need lots of them, each one making up for the deficiencies of another. Didn't seem to be anything there which I couldn't do faster and better without a gadget, and a lot more besides.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/tools/choosing-a-honing-guide

.......

Breton Spoon Seller ( circa 1900 ) for your delectation. Spoon Sellers used to do "door to door" as itinerant salesmen, and also sell on local Breton markets, making the spoons as they traveled from whatever wood they came across, they also made "specials" to order.Machines and imports did for them eventually.

Interesting! I don't know about spoons but wood-ware in kitchens seems to last forever. We've got a walnut salad bowl in regular use which my dad made 70 or more years ago. And a few boards etc.

 

[Eshmiel]

Well blow me down I had no idea they actually did footwear!
The plot thickens!

What are these facets? I've never had them. Are they something to do with primary/secondary/micro bevels? Maybe time for the Veritas Mk 3? Or do your stones need flattening with another stone flattened by a third stone, or something along those lines?

Even I, a sharping gubbins addict, draw the line at them waterstones and other crumbly wet & sludgy stuff that requires gallons of water and a huge diamond plate to re-flatten the things every time they're used. I always look, anyway, for at least 7 knurled brass knobs on sharpening gubbins (preferably small and gleaming seductively). But there's no room left in me sharpening box, even if someone does come up with a 16,000 grit super-stone.

Oh - someone did. But no.

 

[Eshmiel]

Gouges, IME are easier to sharpen and best, if done often on a spinny disc of MDF with one's preference of abrasive "stuff" applied to its face and edge, next to where one is sculpting, and a block or blocks with all the appropriate profiles also suitably charged with the aforementioned choice of abrasive "stuff", next to that. You can make both items, discs and blocks, to suit your preferred style and size of gouges.You can also make blocks for the little gouges etc that you make yourself for when the thing that you need does not exist outside of your head.

Breton Spoon Seller ( circa 1900 ) for your delectation. Spoon Sellers used to do "door to door" as itinerant salesmen, and also sell on local Breton markets, making the spoons as they traveled from whatever wood they came across, they also made "specials" to order.Machines and imports did for them eventually.

When the world economy and me pension go mammary-glands-up, probably next week, I may try that Breton spoon seller mode. I'll take the collie as a companion, training her to steal sausages and pies from dining tables or kitchens but without eating them all herself. I will wear my axe ostentatiously, to ward away any would-be spoon stealers.

*****
Funnily enough I've already made half a dozen MDF discs on the drill press, all 19mm wide and with a 150mm diameter. A bolt and some nuts as arbour, mounted, in a Metabo slow-speed, high torque mains-powered drill I no longer use for anything much. These certainly work well on carving knives and (when given a curved profile) hook knives.

The thought of wooden forms, with concave and convex cross sections to match gouges, has also crossed my mind. I tried cutting the concave version with the gouges they would then fit but couldn't get a truly even trough. I have a number of cove and bead router cutters, though, that would cut very smooth and even channels/humps of various radii in, say, hard maple, as well as some very thin leather I could stick on them to help retain the honing stuff. I'll give that a try.

I may get one star (off-brown rather than gold) from Jacob, as I'll use these things to attempt some hand-sharpening as well as the honing ("sandpaper" stuck on them rather than leather and honing paste). On the other hand, Jacob may pooh-pooh these channels and humps as unnecessary, as a proper sharpener should be able to sharpen even a V-tool with one hand, on a brick, whilst the other hand is making a cabinet and the worker is engrossed in a Radio 3 tune.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Funnily enough I've already made half a dozen MDF discs on the drill press, all 19mm wide and with a 150mm diameter. A bolt and some nuts as arbour, mounted, in a Metabo slow-speed, high torque mains-powered drill I no longer use for anything much. These certainly work well on carving knives and (when given a curved profile) hook knives.

My (one) mdf disc is on outboard side of lathe. Used at slowest speed. Occasionally swapped for a sanding disc on a face plate.

 

[Eshmiel]

Interesting! I don't know about spoons but wood-ware in kitchens seems to last forever. We've got a walnut salad bowl in regular use which my dad made 70 or more years ago. And a few boards etc.

When starting at the spoons I bought a couple of books on the matter, largely for pattern suggestions. One is by Lora S. Irish, an American carver and pyrographer, who tells of a spoon given to her great great (etc.) grandma as a wedding present in 1870 and still being used today in Lora's kitchen. She provides photos and a pattern to copy it.

My wife now has four shrink pots in the corner of the kitchen workbenches containing 51 spoons, spatulas and other kitchen implements that I've made from willow, cherry, beech, apple and hazel (all got out of the garden whilst remaking it, top to bottom) in the last 12 months. Some are used rarely but a good 25% of them get used on most days - the spats, stirrers, tasters, servers and, of course, the eating spoons.

It has been surprising how resilient these things are. Their tactility is also pleasant, in hand and on lip. Poppy seed oil on the working end (renewed but not often, as they work) and shellac on the handles.

One daughter has demanded love spoons. I'm not a fan of the things but one cannot disobey a daughter as there would be Consequences. I suppose its carving practice.

 

[BentonTool]

Paul ..re the cough cough golden beetle..would you perchance happen to also have the ice cleats..are they any good .. asking for Mme hers are wearing out ( size 37 ) over 10 years old, and appear to be made from unobtanium now here.

aside ..that site has pop ups on it's pop ups..like being chugged by the krishas used to be on Tottenham Court road back in the 70s

I have many ice cleats, several varieties; a topic of interest for me.
I am using them today with an ice storm having arrived overnight and due for another over the weekend (as is the typical in Pennsylvania)... I can comment on the ice cleats if you wish to hear:

The variety above works exceptionally well, and are very durable, but more cumbersome in use and cumbersome to mount & dismount if you are in a hurry. The screws are easily replaced and you need not pay the exorbitant price on the LVT website- just go to your local ironmonger if you do not already have these screws in stock. I bought a lot of six on the dreaded e-site years ago. Gave a pair to the mailman after he complained of the ice on our sidewalk.

This style of cleats directly above comes in many varieties. Large full-sole models such as the above, and some that are more like a band with only a few cleats that wrap around the mid-sole. These are much more comfortable and are easily affixed to your shoes, but not durable.
If you use them to travel to you car and back, the lighter ones work well.
For long walks, you may want the heavier ones.

 

[BentonTool]

My (one) mdf disc is on outboard side of lathe. Used at slowest speed. Occasionally swapped for a sanding disc on a face plate.

I put my power-strop on the outboard side of the lathe:

 

[paulrbarnard]

Paul ..re the cough cough golden beetle..would you perchance happen to also have the ice cleats..are they any good .. asking for Mme hers are wearing out ( size 37 ) over 10 years old, and appear to be made from unobtanium now here.

aside ..that site has pop ups on it's pop ups..like being chugged by the krishas used to be on Tottenham Court road back in the 70s

As a past denizen of Canada I do have a set of slip-on ice cleats, though not from Lee Valley. Alas no spare cleats.