Veritas marking gauge looses its setting

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Definitely not a mortice gauge then

That explains it! Not a mortice gauge but a "dual" gauge.
How often do I need a "dual" gauge?
Well, never, as far as I recall, I'd just pick up two woodies instead.

You have all the answers, Jacob.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Sorry Derek, missed this one.
Answer is - that is exactly how all normal mortice chisels work.
You set the chisel width between the pins and then set the face distance from them, if that is what you mean.

Jacob, yes, all mortice gauges do this. But how many actually lock the setting and allow the fence/head to be moved back-and-forth freely? In my experience, only the expensive ones do this via a screw adjuster. Most have a loose slide for a pin, which you lock with a thumb while making the adjustment. That makes fine adjustment of mortice depth a little more tricky.

It was because of this that I developed a fixed blade mortice gauge with interchangeable blade sets for different size mortices …

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, yes, all mortice gauges do this. But how many actually lock the setting and allow the fence/head to be moved back-and-forth freely?

You don't actually lock it - it isn't necessary. You simply hold/set it in place whilst moving the head and then check again when finally tightening the one screw.

In my experience, only the expensive ones do this via a screw adjuster. Most have a loose slide for a pin, which you lock with a thumb while making the adjustment. That makes fine adjustment of mortice depth a little more tricky.

I've got both - if you look at my collection above. One has a screw adjuster the other just a projecting "handle". In use there's nothing in it. Not tricky at all - it takes seconds and is completely unproblematic - fine adjustment by the very traditional tap, tap, nudge, nudge!

It was because of this that I developed a fixed blade mortice gauge with interchangeable blade sets for different size mortices …

Interesting - but the adjustable design is probably more practical as not all M&Ts and their chisels fall conveniently into 1/8" 1/4" ....etc sizes, not to mention metric equivalents! You could end up with a case load of alternative sizes.

PS The Stanley 91 was a flop apparently, and now a collectable rarity. Hang on to the Veritas version - in the future it might even be worth as much as you paid for it!

 

[Jacob]

Thinking about the "Dual" marking gauge idea, just occurred to me - what about combining a marking pin gauge and a pencil? Just strap them together with something like the Veritas "shaft" clamp? Or an elastic band? I might have a go. Could be patented? I could be rich!

An obvious improvement to the Veritas design would be a square shaft - the fixing screw would have a better and more positive bearing surface. Disappointed to discover that I'm not the first to think of this and here's one from Ebay!
A better knob too - no brass knobs just a slotted screw, no need for plastic jawed pliers etc

 

[Blackswanwood]

I’m a bit perplexed as to why the style of marking/cutting gauge has become a contentious issue.

I have both but the one I find best for my woodworking is the Veritas. It works perfectly for what I want particularly with smaller pieces of work.

That doesn’t imply the wooden ones are rubbish and if anyone prefers them that’s great - if we all did things the same way/had the same preferences life would be boring. Claiming one is better than the other in all circumstances (or that one must be rubbish based on a single issue or it has brass parts) is more than a little facile in my view.

I also find Veritas tools to be well engineered by a company with a pride in the quality of what it produces. Someone made a good suggestion that an e-mail to them to ask about the issue the op is experiencing.

 

[Jacob]

.... Claiming one is better than the other in all circumstances (or that one must be rubbish based on a single issue or it has brass parts) is more than a little facile in my view.

The slipping setting is an issue which comes up all the time. It's not just "a single issue" it's a critical detail

I also find Veritas tools to be well engineered by a company with a pride in the quality of what it produces. Someone made a good suggestion that an e-mail to them to ask about the issue the op is experiencing.

In a nutshell: well engineered but badly designed and expensive.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The slipping setting is an issue which comes up all the time. It's not just "a single issue" it's a critical detail

In a nutshell: well engineered but badly designed and expensive.

”All the time” - there only seems to be one thread on Here that mentions it?

 

[Jacob]

”All the time” - there only seems to be one thread on Here that mentions it?

Google "Veritas marking gauge problem".
Beginners don't seem to know how to use pin gauges without wandering off the line. Veritas claims to have the answer but there is a much simpler and cheaper one - which is to learn how to use a normal marking gauge. 10 minutes practice and you are off!

 

[Blackswanwood]

Google "Veritas marking gauge problem".
Beginners don't seem to know how to use pin gauges without wandering off the line. Veritas claims to have the answer.

I have - it doesn’t show up anything about there being a widespread issue with the setting slipping. Given the length of time Veritas have been producing these if it were a major issue it would have come up on here before.

I’m out of this Jacob as while you undoubtedly have years of experience and make some good points at times you just enjoy an argument for the sake of it and I’ve better things to do with my time.

 

[Jacob]

....

I’m out of this Jacob as while you undoubtedly have years of experience and make some good points at times you just enjoy an argument for the sake of it and I’ve better things to do with my time.

Tibi asked a question, I gave an answer which Veritas fans didn't like.
The "dual gauge" was someone else's diversion, I'd never given them a thought. I assumed it was a mortice gauge but apparently it isn't. A very strange beast!

 

[aet1]

I've been out of action for a week or two, so missed this thread until today.
Well, Jacob, I do like your selection - and agree the two cutting gauges are not exactly an everyday need, especially with the wedges which are a pain to set. I am with you, the old ones do what they are meant to do without any fuss (bit like many old codgers I suppose). I am not in the financial position to buy any new fangled toys to throw away so did not even know about a three screw unreliable Veritas one, but my old ones do the job well - although I could do with a mortice gauge with the screw adjustment for the second pin as it does make setting easier.
Now off to the garage to linseed oil my old ones, perhaps that will mean they will not have the problem of getting tight in the winter, here on the flats of Lincolnshire humidity is more of an issue than in many places I have lived.

 

[MikeK]

Tibi asked a question, I gave an answer which Veritas fans didn't like.
The "dual gauge" was someone else's diversion, I'd never given them a thought. I assumed it was a mortice gauge but apparently it isn't. A very strange beast!

Let's be very clear about this. @tibi asked a question about how to fix an issue with his Veritas marking gauge. You did NOT answer his question, but instead gave your same tired response about how such modern tools were a waste of money and the only real way was the old way. Your reply did not answer his question, but very predictably injected your opinion where it was not requested. My only surprise by your reply was it took 32 minutes after tibi's post.

I've noticed your type of response in a number of threads at UKW where you can't answer a question, so you give the only reply you know. If a tool, technique, or process does not appear in a century-old publication, it has no use in today's shop.

Your lack of knowledge or experience for some modern tools or methods does not appear to stop you from denigrating the tool or process. As a member and not a Moderator, I really wish you would refrain from attempting to answer questions about topics that are beyond your experience or trying to promote your method at the expense of all other methods.

The best reply I've seen from another thread is Richard's comment below.

I'm not a fan of that kind of grindstone, too slow, but what I prefer is of no consequence as long as you're happy with the system and it works for you. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Let's be very clear about this. @tibi asked a question about how to fix an issue with his Veritas marking gauge. You did NOT answer his question, but instead gave your same tired response about how such modern tools were a waste of money and the only real way was the old way. Your reply did not answer his question,

Let's be very clear about this - it offered the simplest solution to a simple problem.

....

Your lack of knowledge or experience for some modern tools or methods does not appear to stop you from denigrating the tool or process. As a member and not a Moderator, I really wish you would refrain from attempting to answer questions about topics that are beyond your experience or trying to promote your method at the expense of all other methods.

I will answer questions as I see fit. I have had experience of modern tools including a metal marking gauge which had similar problems and was unpleasant to use for long - I've had to spend many hours marking up.

People should concentrate on the message, right or wrong, rather than insulting the messenger, which just lowers the tone.

 

[Jacob]

I've been out of action for a week or two, so missed this thread until today.
Well, Jacob, I do like your selection - and agree the two cutting gauges are not exactly an everyday need, especially with the wedges which are a pain to set. I am with you, the old ones do what they are meant to do without any fuss (bit like many old codgers I suppose). I am not in the financial position to buy any new fangled toys to throw away so did not even know about a three screw unreliable Veritas one, but my old ones do the job well - although I could do with a mortice gauge with the screw adjustment for the second pin as it does make setting easier.
Now off to the garage to linseed oil my old ones, perhaps that will mean they will not have the problem of getting tight in the winter, here on the flats of Lincolnshire humidity is more of an issue than in many places I have lived.

I've had old woodies which stick. Easy fix - get them dry enough to loosen the shaft and remove it, then sand or plane it a touch. The shaft can be a loose fit with no problem, as the screw tightens them very solidly into the slight hollow in the head.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Let's be very clear about this - it offered the simplest solution to a simple problem.

But not the OP's.

 

[Trafalgar]

Anybody who has ever had a tool in the workshop that featured a solid, polished steel rod in its construction knows they slip. They all do, they all will. You sort of have to make peace with them on combination planes. You don't have to do so on simple gauges.

 

[Daniel2]

Anybody who has ever had a tool in the workshop that featured a solid, polished steel rod in its construction knows they slip. They all do, they all will. You sort of have to make peace with them on combination planes. You don't have to do so on simple gauges.

But it makes my tool wall look more beautiful.
Something that I find important.

 

[Trafalgar]

But it makes my tool wall look more beautiful.
Something that I find important.

Ha! Never underestimate the decorative quality of brass and steel.

 

[pgrbff]

Let's be very clear about this - it offered the simplest solution to a simple problem.

I will answer questions as I see fit. I have had experience of modern tools including a metal marking gauge which had similar problems and was unpleasant to use for long - I've had to spend many hours marking up.

People should concentrate on the message, right or wrong, rather than insulting the messenger, which just lowers the tone.

Your overiding message always seems to be 'if it's good enough for Jacob it should be good enough for everyone else' , and we're not all the same. Some like to try the new, and the not so new like waterstones and pull saws, and make up our own minds.

 

[Jacob]

Your overiding message always seems to be 'if it's good enough for Jacob it should be good enough for everyone else' , and we're not all the same. Some like to try the new, and the not so new like waterstones and pull saws, and make up our own minds.

Nothing wrong with trying new stuff, I've done it myself often. But there's a strong tendency to denigrate the older stuff.
This can be a mistake as much of it is in fact very well designed and developed e.g. normal woody marking gauges, clumsy though they may look.
The Veritas offerings look neat, are heavily promoted, are expensive, but simply don't work as well in my experience. They don't even attempt a mortice gauge - the "Dual" gauge being the nearest thing, but inadequate, as explained by Derek earlier.