Juuma Vs Lie Nielsen Rebate (Rabbet) Block Planes?

[Phil Pascoe]

I believe people like LN, Veritas etc. for three reasons. 1/ They're pretty, 2/ They're better out of the box if you're not sure what you're doing, and three snobbery. I seem to have managed without them.

 

[deema]

When I ‘retired’ eight years ago I was very interested in starting a woodworking manufacturing company. I looked at buying Sedgwick…..but the family weren’t interested in selling and also looked at manufacturing hand tools like LN / LV using the knowledge and contacts I had. With any business plan I had a good deep dive into the perceived competition, size of market, barriers to entry etc etc. the following formed part of the trawl of data (thanks Phil, I’ve amended by typo) that gave an interesting insight into LN.

In 2015 LN had an alleged turnover of $9 million with 90 employees, so circa $100K / employee which is very low indicating a company that’s struggling, the case study is really a very good example of how not to run a company. I understand it has a turnover if circa $20 million these days making circa 20K tools / annum or circa $100 / tool. Very high for what is being made.

Case study of LN
https://joeclark-phd.github.io/assets/files/sigdsa_2016_LNTcase_revised.pdf

 

[Phil Pascoe]

data?

 

[deema]

Soylent Green is just a little ways away.

Pete

What! Great film, but can’t work out the relevance? Reference to the vote in the UK on Friday?

 

[deema]

data?

Well, the speed of your response it’s clear you’ve not read the linked case study……which would answer your question.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

the following formed part of the trawl of dara ...

 

[deema]

LV isn’t much better, indicative data suggest a turnover if circa $100K Canadian dollars / employee. Manufacturing processes that in Lees own words is obsolete. Again, another good example of how not to run a manufacturing company.
Both company’s produce highly valued tools, and in my book are trading on borrowed time. They represent company’s that haven’t moved swiftly, focused on their core products and responded to the trading environment.

So, eight years ago, I decided the market was too small and too niche for real growth and value added development. It was IMO a cottage industry which was highly vulnerable to market and competitive variability with little to differentiate them from me too. I tip my hat to both company’s for starting up and striving to develop quality tools.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/rob-magazine/article-lee-valley-tools-business-success/

 

[deema]

the following formed part of the trawl of dara ...

Come on Phil, make a contribution that has some thought behind it. A bit childish otherwise. Whats dara? Last time I looked, after considering what you could mean diarrhoea doesn’t start of dara?

 

[Inspector]

What! Great film, but can’t work out the relevance? Reference to the vote in the UK on Friday?

Just a humerous poke at humanities race to the bottom. Don't worry if you don't get my sense of humour, most people don't. Why I even wonder about it sometimes.

I shy away from everyones news since it is always the same so didn't know about your election. Just plug in a different date, city, country, conflict, weather etc. and it was the same as last nights. Hopefully a good outcome in your coming election. Could Black Friday earn a new meaning?

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Come on Phil, make a contribution that has some thought behind it. A bit childish otherwise. Whats dara? Last time I looked, after considering what you could mean diarrhoea doesn’t start of dara?

I just expected you to correct "dara" in your post to "data". That's all.

 

[deema]

I just expected you to correct "dara" in your post to "data". That's all.

My apologise, my bad, I can’t write / spell eloquently to save my life and really appreciate my errors being highlighted, I do take them on board and try to learn from them That’s sincere, as I’m a bit word blind.

 

[Inspector]

For what it is worth. When I retired in 2015 I was working in an aerospace machining plant that made large aluminium and hard metal parts and assemblies. Many of the parts had dedicated fixtures on pallets in a cell of several milling machines that were loaded and in cue to be sent in the machine when the existing work at that stage was done. Multiple parts were being made at the same time. It allowed for changes reflected by production needs or to replace rejected (that was me) parts. Very adaptable. LN and LV should have the same using smaller mills and lathes in their cells rather than individual manually operated machines. The practices and methods have been used for a long time but it take someone to make the hard decision to front the money to change over.

Pete

 

[johnnyb]

It's a bit like bronze age men refining there tools to the nth degree at the start of the iron age. I view the surf

 

[johnnyb]

Surfeit of vintage tools evidence that there's way more tools than people using them. The amount of literally unused boutique tools is beyond belief(bit like broad arrow tools). Lie nielsen and veritas are selling tools at prices that mean there never used. How is that ever sustainable. I'm baffled at there continued use of the dreadful A2 irons. That alone is enough to make me buy other brands. Those block planes, in fact any rebate plane needs the sole checked for flatness. New or old. Those thin arms provide little support to the front.
I occasionally ponder how the plane market would have panned out without these 2 American companies. Would infills be as valuable as they used to be. Would craft makers produce beautiful wooden planes.? If they didn't have Leonard Baileys original developments where would it have ended up. A craftsman made wooden plane (cottage)industry feels like a more appropriate conclusion.

 

[johnnyb]

I'd just like to mention the Sheffield tool industry as making things for people to actually use at a price/quality point they could afford.
It says to me that finishing tools to surgical standards is not necessary or desirable for professional users.
Only as jewellery