using red and black cable for a renovation addition circuit

[Bill]

Does anyone know for sure whether it is permissible to add a new circuit to an existing house wiring system using the old red and black twin and earth cable instead of the new coloured cable.
According to the regs use of the old red and black cable was permissible up till April 2006 when Part 'P' inspection was introduced.
I'm renovating an old bungalow which already has red and black wiring and I want to add a couple of new ring circuits using my stock of old red/black cable.
It seem a nonsense to have to mix new and old coloured cables in an existing installation if red and black cable is available.

 

[DomValente]

Welcome Bill

It seem a nonsense to have to mix new and old coloured cables in an existing installation if red and black cable is available.

The fourth word will be the key to your answer.

Dom

 

[davy_owen_88]

A new circuit is notifiable work and you should inform your BCO about it, pay their fee and then they will perform the final inspection and testing.

BS7671 is the benchmark for compliance with P1 of Part P. In BS7671 it clearly states that new wiring shall be done in the new harmonised colours so that is what your building inspector will enforce - regardless of what you think is nonsense.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Bill

Welcome to forum.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[DaveL]

Hi Bill,

Welcome to the forum.

I had a first floor extension build the end of last year. The new wiring is in the new colours. The electricians had to do it that way to meet the new regs. There is a sticker on one of the old fuse boxes which states:-

CAUTION
This installation has wiring colours to two versions of BS7671.
Great care should be taken before undertaking extension, alteration or repair that all conductors are correctly identified.

The same rules apply for your work.

 

[mr]

From 1st April 2006, the old colours will not be permissible in new installations or when making changes.
Where new colour cable is used to extend an existing 'old colour' installation before 1st April 2006, a warning notice must be fixed at the main distribution or consumer unit of the installation.

Cheers Mike

 

[Woody Alan]

Davy just a thought, Is it permissable to mark up the ends with appropriate coloured sleeving, and if done well your average BCO probably won't mind if it serves it's purpose.

Cheers Alan

 

[Woody Alan]

A new circuit is notifiable work and you should inform your BCO about it, pay their fee and then they will perform the final inspection and testing.

Or alternatively speak to a part P electrician who is happy to test/ final connect and sign off for you. for the same fee or less.

Alan

 

[davy_owen_88]

Davy just a thought, Is it permissable to mark up the ends with appropriate coloured sleeving, and if done well your average BCO probably won't mind if it serves it's purpose.

You may get away with sleeving, but on a brand new circuit I think it's best to just get new cable.

Or alternatively speak to a part P electrician who is happy to test/ final connect and sign off for you. for the same fee or less.

A part P registered electrician is not allowed to sign off work he didn't do. Although some will do so for friends/family, you will have a job finding a decent spark who will put his name to work someone else did, because if it's done wrong it's his ass on the line at the end of the day. Some may let you do the donkey work (chasing the walls, lifting the floorboards etc.) but unless they can see the cable run it it's entirety you'll be asking a lot.

 

[mr]

Davy just a thought, Is it permissable to mark up the ends with appropriate coloured sleeving, and if done well your average BCO probably won't mind if it serves it's purpose.

Cheers Alan

Apart from being a little pointless, speaking as someone who has had occasion to work on electrical installations (temporary site installations) if you come across an installation with non standard colours or sleeving (which is rare) it doesn't do much for your trust of the previous workmanship or, as a result, the installation itself. In these instances the wiring would usually be stripped out completely and remade from scratch. As I say I am referring to temporary installations where cables have not been chased into walls etc.
Cheers Mike

 

[Woody Alan]

A new circuit is notifiable work and you should inform your BCO about it, pay their fee and then they will perform the final inspection and testing.

A part P registered electrician is not allowed to sign off work he didn't do. Although some will do so for friends/family, you will have a job finding a decent spark who will put his name to work someone else did, because if it's done wrong it's his ass on the line at the end of the day. Some may let you do the donkey work (chasing the walls, lifting the floorboards etc.) but unless they can see the cable run it it's entirety you'll be asking a lot.

I guess it must just be me but I don't see the difference here because that's what the BCO will do, sign off what a sparky won't probably with less qualifications.

makes no sense to me at the end of the day but the advice must always be do it the right way.

 

[davy_owen_88]

The BCO inspectors check the work after first fix, and then again after second and finally when they come to do the testing. Ultimately the householder is responsible for the work in this case, and not the inspector.

With an electrician, it all goes through their name, so any problems can be traced back to that electrician. He'll also have a hard time trying to justify why he signed off work as his own when it wasn't if someone dies as a result of that work.