Workshop Electrical Feed Issues

[J-G]

the £262 charge does NOT include VAT to be paid to HMRC

No, It includes the VAT already paid to HMRC through the materials supplier!

... and I don't care how much you shout or protest, your supply - or any other supply (of the type under discussion) - is NOT VAT free.

Food isn't VAT free even though some of it is Zero Rate, VAT has to be accounted for even though the rate is 0% but there I am being pedantic

There are two categories of supply which are VAT Free - one is 'Exempt' and the other is 'Outside Scope' - neither of which apply in your case.

Postage Charges are a peculiarity since they are 'Exempt' - ie. you don't pay VAT on stamps - but if they are shown separately on an invoice from a Registered supplier then they attract the 'Standard' rate.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

No, It includes the VAT already paid to HMRC through the materials supplier!

That is nothing to do with your claim that I am paying VAT. I am not. It is also rather different from your last incorrect post claiming that somehow HMRC had anything to do with the bill.

How his expenses are paid is not my responsibility.

He is the final link in any VAT chain that may (or may not) exist, I am not.

My responsibility is to check that his prices are competitive and pay his bill in a timely manner.

however I will not respond to your future posts. None so blind as those who will not see.
Congratulations on being the second on the list. Plonk!

 

[J-G]

I resisted an offensive post a few days ago and will do so again but it is you sometimewoodworker who is blind and will not see the workings of VAT regulations and that sadly is your loss.

 

[Spectric]

It is unfortunate that we are all taxed on a regular basis and HMRC even tax us one last time on death but until the system changes we are all nothing more than dairy cattle there to be milked by the government. Anyone any idea where the value comes from in VAT? I don't see any value in paying it and years ago it was much easier when everyone paid in cash, or traded ne job for another.

 

[J-G]

I don't see any value in paying it and years ago it was much easier when everyone paid in cash, or traded one job for another.

That tells me that you prefer what is known as the 'Black Economy' (which is totally outside of my experience) and would sooner return to a 'barter' system but I suspect that you still want the benefits of a central fund providing all the basic life comforts that you currently enjoy -- there is the 'Value'

Taxes are there to provide a general fund with which government can provide social care amongst many other things.

Value Added Tax is a very simple tax which reflects the value added when goods or services change hands. If value is not added then no tax becomes payable and if value is lost then tax is refunded - automatically.

The alternative is an increase in Income Tax but that penalises only those receiving an income and ignores consumption. VAT takes account of consumption and can easily be used to provide some measure of relief. A prime example has just come to light with our exit from the EU --- female sanitary products will no longer incur the 5% charge that was insisted upon by our membership of the EU.

I know that 'thread drift' is often inevitable but suspect that this thread is so far from its original subject that 'drift' is hardly appropriate

 

[Sandyn]

Since joining this forum, I have learnt so many things about planes, motors, wood, machines, wiring, heaters, but the real bonus is: I have learnt how split a hair into about 12 bits along it's length. .

 

[Spectric]

That tells me that you prefer what is known as the 'Black Economy' (which is totally outside of my experience) and would sooner return to a 'barter' system but I suspect that you still want the benefits of a central fund providing all the basic life comforts that you currently enjoy -- there is the 'Value'

Thats the economy I grew up with, people spent real money and not plastic and more often than not only brought what they could afford. Now if VAT was introduced in 1973 because we got into bed with the europeans then now we have divorced them what happens now. Back to topic, we changed our wiring colors to harmonise with europe, Red, Yellow & Blue with Black neutral became Brown, Black & grey with blue neutral and we also harmonised voltages to 400 and 230 instead of the old 415 and 240 so will we remain euro or as old Borris says we have our sovereinty back and revert back again with more chaos. I dread to imagine this based on the number of stickers I have stuck into boards stating "caution installation wiring to two versions of BS7671 ".

 

[Jelly]

Now if VAT was introduced in 1973 because we got into bed with the europeans then now we have divorced them what happens now.

I can sense some hostility to the EU here, but in a "What did the Romans ever do for us?" moment:

When we joined the EEC, the UK government had to replace purchase tax (which was between 13% and 55% depending what was being bought) with a flat 10% VAT, which was promptly cut to 8%.




My assumption is thus that if as joining the EEC gave us a massive cut in tax on goods enabling the common man to more easily purchase luxury goods (like cars) by cutting their real world purchase price by upto a third...

Then our current government will presumably be giving us all a whopping great increase in taxes to fund their rank inconpetence and blatant cronyism.

Oh and they'll have the balls to call it "the will of the people" too, in a vain attempt to convince people hardest hit by it that it's what they wanted all along!

 

[Doug B]

Since joining this forum, I have learnt so many things about planes, motors, wood, machines, wiring, heaters, but the real bonus is: I have learnt how split a hair into about 12 bits along it's length. .

Stick around Sandy it’ll be up to 24 in no time

 

[Jelly]

Stick around Sandy it’ll be up to 24 in no time

Am I missing a post on really tiny froes?

You can't just come on here talking about it without sharing that link!

 

[Jake]

ALL domestic electrical work comes under Part P, the difference is whether it is notifiable or not.
Thus all work needs to comply with BS 7671 as required by Part P, which is law.

This is the substantive Part P (the law) below - all of it, in its full glory. Part P (the law) does not actually apply to all domestic electrical work. It is applicable to "building work" which (in context) is defined either as "a material alteration" of "a controlled service" or as the "provision or extension" of "a controlled service". A material alteration of a controlled service is one which makes it less compliant than before with various other parts of the BR, but not Part P itself.

What is commonly thought of as Part P is the Approved Document, which is guidance as to how the Secretary of State considers the law above can be complied with but is not itself law.

As Part P (the Approved Doc) will be treated as persuasive guidance by the Court as to the interpretation of Part P (the law), this distinction is a very fine one (i.e. in practice obey the guidance not just the law).

But in the interests of continuing to split hairs I think the Part P Approved Doc is hard if not impossible to square with the law in some respects.

 

[Jake]

Stick around Sandy it’ll be up to 24 in no time

Just done my bit

 

[Spectric]

Well the thing to always remember is that the BS7671 regulations only provide guidance on electrical installations and there is no legal requirement to comply with them, BUT when something goes wrong and your name is in the frame then they can be used to prove negligence if you have not followed them and cannot explain why you did not adhere to them.

 

[Jake]

Oh you would have to be some combination of mad, stupid or reckless not to follow BS7671 to the letter whether or not Part P is legally applicable.