US Election November 5th

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Is he? How so?

He only said in public that he "Admires Putin" for his control and as a political operator - ie. Farage admires the idea of a violent dictator.
He also said that "The West provoked Putin" to attack Ukraine.

SO, yeah, there's that...

 

[mudman]

I think this is a discussion based on something that couldn't really be avoided. The legal (typical US litigious mindset) situation, as I understand it, was that the funding for Biden's (Biden/Harris) campaign could NOT be legitimately transferred to another candidate. When Biden agreed to stand down it was too late to start that funding from scratch, so the only reasonable option was to appoint Harris - since Harris was already explicitly on the funding ticket, right there in black and white (Biden/Harris) the gathered funds would be legitimate to continue to draw. This was obviously far from an ideal situation, but the Democrats had to weigh up the pros and cons of:

Sticking with Biden (legally safe, but knowing that this was highly likely to deliver defeat);
Transferring to Harris (risky but better bet than Biden, and best to avoid legal challenge);
Appointing a new nominee and transfer funding (risky - time-consuming, with big chance of falling foul of legal challenge);
Appointing a new nominee and starting with a zero balance sheet and fund from scratch (best chance of securing the most ideal candidate, and request donors to transfer their donations - but the legalities of that were unclear at the time and probably highly challengeable).

Of the above 4 options, each having significant downsides and legal implications, the Harris option was selected. And it might've worked except for those pesky voters who care far less about the fact that Trump is an adjudicated rapist, a multiple felon, known liar(*) and instigator of a violent attempted coup... and care more about the fact that the lies (which they know to be lies) actually appeal to them.

(*) Trump complained that FOX would not repeat his lies on air this time around - but that was because FOX were fined almost $800million dollars for transmitting Trumps lies last time, so were clearly not so inclined to fall foul of this repeating of known lies this time around.

You misunderstand. She became VP as a diversity hire. The Democrats never expected her to stand for president. The fact that they covered up Joe's mental decline for so long and were then left with no choice but to go with Kamala is a direct result of the DEI decision back when Biden first stood for president.

 

[niemeyjt]

Why would Ukraine demobilize? It would be madness. More likely that both sides would take the opportunity to secure borders and increase the strength of their defensive and offensive capabilities. Ukraine might even get membership of NATO which would further secure their position.

Because it mobilised using martial law because of the war - when there is a ceasefire the martial law ends.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

The DEI hire trope can be seen everywhere, I myself have come across it in many companies. It happens, it exists, it is lamentable and damaging. The sooner it goes the better. Just calling it a 'trope' and denying it's existence doesn't make it 'misinformation'.

And again you go with the whataboutery. The point being answered was about Kamala, not Trump. He may have been a complete blathering imbecile but the truth or not of it doesn't prove or disprove my point and the fact that Kamala has just lost out to what you really despise and see as on a par with something that resides at the bottom of a swamp should tell you something that most of America can see but you appear blind to.

I suggest you give up now and go for that group hug with your lefty friends where you can all wail about the vicissitudes of the ignorant masses and comfort each other with warm words and remind each other that at least you won in the UK.

Ahem - this is what I understand:

The polite way to put this is that USA is "not ready for a woman president" and indeed "even less ready for a coloured female president".

Those two things each have a plain English word associated with them, but despite those words being "factual" they aren't ones that would you would like and would probably dispute on the grounds that you "don't like them" rather than them not being facts.

It's a sad truth that people argue and get heated on account of their feelies at the direct contradiction of the facts. See another thread.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Because it mobilised using martial law because of the war - when there is a ceasefire the martial law ends.

It takes more than a temporary ceasefire to end the notion of maintaining and requiring constant military protection, mobility and visibility - see Korea. Also see Sun Tzu.

 

[mudman]

He only said in public that he "Admires Putin" for his control and as a political operator - ie. Farage admires the idea of a violent dictator.
He also said that "The West provoked Putin" to attack Ukraine.

SO, yeah, there's that...

Again, context is everything. He said that he admired the way Putin had got the Syrians to give up their chemical weapons and so stop a planned attack on Syria by the West. He also said that as a person, he isn't nice and cited the imprisonment of journalists as one reason. Who do you think he should have held up as a leader to be admired?

 

[mudman]

Ahem - this is what I understand:

The polite way to put this is that USA is "not ready for a woman president" and indeed "even less ready for a coloured female president".

Those two things each have a plain English word associated with them, but despite those words being "factual" they aren't ones that would you would like and would probably dispute on the grounds that you "don't like them" rather than them not being facts.

It's a sad truth that people argue and get heated on account of their feelies at the direct contradiction of the facts. See another thread.

That is your interpretation. She demonstrated to the American people just how bad she would be.
You know it could be that she just was not very good. Why does it always have to come down to tarring everyone with the racist brush? It is that sort of thing that has caused untold harm to our society.

 

[mudman]

It takes more than a temporary ceasefire to end the notion of maintaining and requiring constant military protection, mobility and visibility - see Korea. Also see Sun Tzu.

Now I am agreeing with you. It might be the start of an Eastern European cold war but they would never stand down their defenses.
I have a copy of The Art of War, I really should read it.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Again, context is everything. He said that he admired the way Putin had got the Syrians to give up their chemical weapons and so stop a planned attack on Syria by the West. He also said that as a person, he isn't nice and cited the imprisonment of journalists as one reason. Who do you think he should have held up as a leader to be admired?

Faraj can spell that out for himself. In fact, he did. Only later, under pressure from the press and under no small amount of duress did he make any qualifications about the type of man Putin is. But that ignores the obvious - and the obvious is that the type of man Putin is, and the type of Leader Putin is, are one and the same - they go hand-in-glove - and you cannot reasonably "admire" someone's leadership if they practice that leadership by being brutally violent while at the same time denounce the fact that they are brutally violent (in their leadership). That is just contrary and for the fairies.

 

[Fergie 307]

Seems to me Trump voters fall into two broad camps.
Those who love him come what may, and for whom he can do no wrong.
Those who find the man unpleasant, to a greater or lesser degree, but feel they were better off under his presidency and look forward to being better off again. Or they prefer his policies and goals to those of the Democrats.
On those terms they are prepared to overlook his behaviour.
At the end of the day it's their choice.
I can sympathise with the second viewpoint, although I think there are limits. In my view Trump was just far too unpleasant to be excused.
But he has won, nothing to be done about it. And he has won the popular vote by a significant margin, so the majority of Americans, or at least of those who chose to vote, have got the president they wanted.
Any who didn't vote have only themselves to blame if they didn't get their preferred candidate.
That is democracy.
Whether those who voted for him come to regret it remains to be seen, but there is no point whining on and hand wringing about it, any more than there is over the dreaded B word.
Now we need to wait and see what he actually gets up to.

 

[Spectric]

As someone said, they have Donald Trump and we have Donald duck, middle name being lame. It is the 6th November, election over and Trump is the new president, his last term as I think no one can serve more than two terms so what is the issue. Why are people frightened of someone like Trump, he will get things done and not worry about upsetting a few people in the process which is what we need here in the UK.

 

[mudman]

Faraj can spell that out for himself. In fact, he did. Only later, under pressure from the press and under no small amount of duress did he make any qualifications about the type of man Putin is. But that ignores the obvious - and the obvious is that the type of man Putin is, and the type of Leader Putin is, are one and the same - they go hand-in-glove - and you cannot reasonably "admire" someone's leadership if they practice that leadership by being brutally violent while at the same time denounce the fact that they are brutally violent (in their leadership). That is just contrary and for the fairies.

I'm just saying that we should hear the full context of that interview before making judgements. I think he was daft to choose Putin as someone to be admired and shows a certain lack of political nous. We seem to have this all the time these days, point scoring by taking statements out of context. Remember the bleach?

 

[mudman]

Seems to me Trump voters fall into two broad camps.
Those who love him come what may, and for whom he can do no wrong.

I saw today that the Democrat party will have to examine what happed and understand what went wrong for them. It's those sort of comments that show that they will learn nothing.

 

[Spectric]

The polite way to put this is that USA is "not ready for a woman president" and indeed "even less ready for a coloured female president".

Having already had Obama then you cannot use that as an excuse and it is not gender that lost her the election it was just that all she was offering was four more years of the same, she had not gone through due process to become the nominee and her presence was laughable, she would blend in more with nursery school kids than adults. The next thing to look out for is our so called special relationship that lammy was keen on destroying, lets hope now at some point Trump might talk trade with us which would be more than Biden.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

That is your interpretation. She demonstrated to the American people just how bad she would be.
You know it could be that she just was not very good. Why does it always have to come down to tarring everyone with the racist brush? It is that sort of thing that has caused untold harm to our society.

I don't think that she did "demonstrate" that. From my perspective it is just that some people are too willing to believe that when the one that they support tells them so. (see "tribalism" in another thread) (Just because she is female and not white - that doesn't mean that she wasn't the best candidate - and saying so risks implying that all female and all non-white are similar, with the same misogynistic and racist connotations.)

Trump was correct when he said he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and he still wouldn't lose any support. But it is in the minds of his supporters that the one who would have been shot would be someone who "deserved it" (and not themselves - because they are the faithful and the leader "will smile upon them", lol)

It wasn't very far in the past that USA still practiced apartheid and not too far before that, that a brutal and bloody civil war was engaged - and for one side it was to retain slavery over the inferior black man. That mindset still persists in large swathes of USA today. Of course that is not "everybody", and please don't say that is what I'm implying, however it is a certainty that I think we both ought to agree on - even if you don't like the idea of agreeing to it. Simpy put, I'm not "tarring" anyone with the racist brush, I'm merely being cold and dispassionate - racism does exist. Also tribalism exists. Also culture wars exist. Also there are some leaders who invoke culture wars as a deliberate modus operandus. Also racism exists. And so the circle is complete.

 

[Chris152]

I actually can't watch the news today. Had Radio 4 on til it unfolded, and now I'm avoiding it. It depresses me that people can be so readily misled by such tripe - not that we should be surprised, given modern history, that a nation's people can be gradually brainwashed by the media, 'culture' and a corrupt figurehead. Seems to be on the increase everywhere, and I guess this'll just encourage the ethically bankrupt. A bad day for planet Earth and its inhabitants.

Still, I did crack on with more rudimentary woodwork than usual, and will now bury my head in the sand/ sawdust/ metal shavings til it passes.

 

[niemeyjt]

It takes more than a temporary ceasefire to end the notion of maintaining and requiring constant military protection, mobility and visibility - see Korea. Also see Sun Tzu.

Ukraine has been conscripting and press ganging troops. I am not sure how easy it will be to stop them returning to public life - and as I say the law under which they were conscripted specified war - so will it still even apply?

 

[sploo]

Why are people frightened of someone like Trump,

Indeed. Why are people frightened of a short tempered, morally corrupt, narcissistic, convicted felon, sex offender, and serial liar? And all that at a time when the US Supreme Court has ruled that the President is essentially a king, and is untouchable for any act that can be deemed as part of the presidency. I can't possibly see how any of that could go wrong.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the court cases against him in the coming months.

 

[Chris152]

And all that at a time when the US Supreme Court has ruled that the President is essentially a king

The same court that he rigged in his favour during his last presidency. To quote Tony, 'You couldn't make it up!'

 

[Fergie 307]

I actually can't watch the news today. Had Radio 4 on til it unfolded, and now I'm avoiding it. It depresses me that people can be so readily misled by such tripe - not that we should be surprised, given modern history, that a nation's people can be gradually brainwashed by the media, 'culture' and a corrupt figurehead. Seems to be on the increase everywhere, and I guess this'll just encourage the ethically bankrupt. A bad day for planet Earth and its inhabitants.

Still, I did crack on with more rudimentary woodwork than usual, and will now bury my head in the sand/ sawdust/ metal shavings til it passes.

I can only repeat the advice given to me by a very good friend.
Can you influence or control or change whatever it is that is getting you down?
If the answer is no, then there really is little point in letting it get to you, it's just not worth it.
Shrug your shoulders, stop worrying about it and get on with your life