Terrible moustache and smarmy hair with too much pomade.
US Election November 5th
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China has been falling back since 2008. Hitting a middle income trap.
That was a Trump international agreement which Biden then had to implement by a fixed date for leaving which Trump had agreed with the Taliban.
His administration has actually been super-cautious over Ukraine in particular. But anyway, you are talking like Neville Chamberlain (or Trump). Weaklings get wound around the fingers of dictators like Putin, and Trump is compromised, a weak man with no principles, and entirely venal.
Netanyahu is out of control, but would just be egged on more by a Trump admin (which he is angling for).
As everything above is nonsense, being more of the same is good. I think there's a very good chance she will be better (and bolder) than Biden in the fight to save democracy from its enemies.
Nope.
I think Tony is strong on law and order, so I ask him now does he think those convicted in the Farage riots should be made to server the full term of their sentences, with no reductions in sentences.
NickDReed
Established Member
I would encourage you to look into that. You're not wrong, the Trump administration negotiated the withdrawal agreement, and stuck to the timeline while they remained in charge. However, the Biden administration catastrophically 5hit the bed with the handling of it when they came to power.
That doesn't put it all at the Biden administrations door, but they don't get to wash their hands of it either.
NickDReed
Established Member
if they must censor me at least get the tense correct and change it to pooped!!
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ey_tony
Established Member
Which were these so called Farage riots you mention above? I must have missed those!
The only recent riots I can think of were those in Southport and other parts of the country after a the slaughter of the three innocent children and the attempted murder of 10 others by someone who is now also being charged under the terrorism act for having Al Qaida training manuals and Ricin poison in their possession.
Misnaming something like that to slur someone tells me all I need to know about the lack of mental dexterity of people who resort to that type prejudiced behaviour! I'll wager now that it will only be left wingers who resort to that type of labeling..it's an all too familiar MO with the left wing mindset..
They've heard someone use the term 'Farage riots' to denigrate him and believe it to be true simply because they don't like such as Farage or anyone who doesn't subscribe to their twisted perspective of the world so c'mon let me know exactly what Farage had to do with the riots...did he encourage people to riot? Evidence please as I'm genuinely interested in the detail.
As for my perspective on law and order the first thing I'd do is get the two scumbags who attacked the police officers in Manchester Airport into court within days and then into prison. It's curious how our justice system could imprison within days a woman for 15 months for some not very choice words on social media and yet two guys who were violent to point of breaking the police woman's nose and attacking the other officers remain free!
One doesn't need to wonder if that is anything to do with their ethnicity, that's for sure.
Starmer was quick to get the rioters into jail within days but he won't do it with those two as it might upset their community and he wouldn't want that!
He isn't called two tier Keir for nothing!
There was certainly media manipulation when only part of the video showing the policeman kicking the guy which showed the police in a bad light and it gained the two scumbags sympathy from the public, but when the full video and what led up to the fighting was released into the public domain the truth came out and the public withdrew their support and they're still waiting for the criminals to face justice.
Why aren't those two scumbags behind bars? Comments please!
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The final withdrawal operation didn't seem to be handled particularly well, but by the time Biden took over the number of troops was so low that they were too reliant on the Afghan govt forces. As Trump had already allowed the Taliban to be released from Afghan prisons in advance and given advance notice of the timing of the withdrawal, that set up the conditions for failure. Basically, Trump had the wool pulled over his eyes by the Taliban and their UAE/Saudi/Pakistani supporters in the Doha talks.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Because if you commit an offence and admit it quickly (which is the case for the majority of those rioters) you end up being processed and sentenced quickly. If you contest the charge (even if you're clearly guilty as sin) then a trial is required, and that can take time. It does not mean that those people will get away with it; indeed, they're likely to receive longer sentences once convicted than if they'd just pleaded guilty at the first opportunity.
Agent_zed
Established Member
So I've been musing on some of the posts by those who are pro-trump and just wanted to clarify the following point.
I'm not against many of the conservative values and principles that they are said to hold. The trouble is Trump and his followers do not actually follow those values and principles. They pay lip service and use it as leverage to take advantage of people. The idea that Trump truly is a Christian and reads the bible is hilarious. He has been married numerous times and has committed adultery, incited violence and lies more than anyone alive and is selling branded bibles!
I've listened to speeches from previous republican presidents and it is so far removed from Donald Trump it is almost beyond belief.
If the true republicans stand for honest law abiding family values I support that, but Trump is no republican and has shown not one shred of decency or empathy.
I don't count myself as left or right, I look at what the person has done and said and what they intend to do. I don't get the notion of sticking with a party because that's what you've always done or what your parents did, especially when that party is in no way the same as what it previously was.
I just heard Arnold Schwarzenegger, among many other, prominant (true) republicans have come out to endorse Harris. Even they can see the party is no longer what it was.
I'm not against many of the conservative values and principles that they are said to hold. The trouble is Trump and his followers do not actually follow those values and principles. They pay lip service and use it as leverage to take advantage of people. The idea that Trump truly is a Christian and reads the bible is hilarious. He has been married numerous times and has committed adultery, incited violence and lies more than anyone alive and is selling branded bibles!
I've listened to speeches from previous republican presidents and it is so far removed from Donald Trump it is almost beyond belief.
If the true republicans stand for honest law abiding family values I support that, but Trump is no republican and has shown not one shred of decency or empathy.
I don't count myself as left or right, I look at what the person has done and said and what they intend to do. I don't get the notion of sticking with a party because that's what you've always done or what your parents did, especially when that party is in no way the same as what it previously was.
I just heard Arnold Schwarzenegger, among many other, prominant (true) republicans have come out to endorse Harris. Even they can see the party is no longer what it was.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Good 5 page article from Albert Einstein who was quite erudite on the subject. I had forgotten about this. Thanks for posting.
NickDReed
Established Member
Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying about releasing prisoners, or troop numbers. Does it seem sensible that when taking over the reigns and finding yourself in a vulnerable position, you would then make the decision to delay the final withdrawal for a further 5 months so you can pull the last people out on a date that is purely picked for reasons that are entirely not about safety.
That's like knowing a train is hurtling towards you but standing there as long as possible just to show off.
I don't think you get to lay this one solely at Donald's feet. Yes that administration set the wheels in motion, but Bidens administration need to own their very significant role in it.
They'd have ended up trying to firefight a by then well prepared Taliban force if they delayed. That could have been dealt with I suppose by ripping up the agreement and having a troop surge to manage the withdrawal.
The original point made by Spectric to which I was replying was "Biden in a confrontation has shown that he is the person to shout retreat first as demonstrated in Afghan".
That 'retreat first' die was set by Trump's agreement with the Taliban (described by Trump's own national security chief, General McMaster, as "a surrender agreement") not the imperfect withdrawal operation run under Biden.
The original point made by Spectric to which I was replying was "Biden in a confrontation has shown that he is the person to shout retreat first as demonstrated in Afghan".
That 'retreat first' die was set by Trump's agreement with the Taliban (described by Trump's own national security chief, General McMaster, as "a surrender agreement") not the imperfect withdrawal operation run under Biden.
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Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Here you go Tony …
https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...e-dangerous-riots-tom-tugendhat-conservatives
If you type Farage Riots into Google it will give you loads of similar examples. Interestingly including other Tory senior MP’s (such as Priti Patel) who were critical of his inflammatory comments.
Do you not see the irony in you saying that against the backdrop of your descriptions of anyone you perceive to have left leaning views?
So pretty much how it went in the farage riots. People chucking bricks at the police ended up in prison within days.
The two brothers, who fought the police are currently out on bail, and their time in court will come. Though they'll be charged with assault and affray, rather than the extremely serious charge of participating in a riot.
Not sure how that will go as the police there didn't follow procedure, so it could be a lesser charge basically on a technicality.
In that arrest, if it was actually an arrest, there was no 'excuse me Sir, I'd like to speak to you about such and such' or 'please step this way Sir, we are making inquiries about an incident, and believe you can help us'. But instead the constable grabbed one of the two around the throat in a violent and completely unprovoked manner, attempting to drag him to the ground.
You see a constable has no right to act in that way. The law is extremely exacting, and procedure must be followed exactly.
But either way the courts will decide, as it is the courts who make the judgements, not the politicians. The politicians can ask for the law to be fast tracked,as the farage riots were ongoing, and showing those unruly and lawbreaking members of the public that attacking the police and attempting to murder has serious consequences. But have no influence over the judgement or decision of the court regarding sentencing.
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RobinBHM
Established Member
Do you have direct quotes by Marx that state he supported violence?
Either way, that is taking one thing out of context, my above quote is the main thrust of Marxism.
RobinBHM
Established Member
USA leaving Afghanistan was a surrender deal negotiated by Trump
RobinBHM
Established Member
Tony you are certainly very opinionated…..you could learn a lot from the range of views and knowledge from the people contributing to this thread instead of listening to yourself.
Have a careful read of this post, it makes some really fundamental points
ey_tony
Established Member
Are you being serious? If that is your evidence then I'm sorry but you've just lost the argument!
First of all look at the news source and then the person who made the claim. A headline in a left wing gutter newspaper and and a humiliated Tory MP who will no doubt loathe Farage as much as the average leftie for Reform helping the Tories lose the election.
Sorry but that ISN'T evidence it's merely biased opinion and you can do as many searches as you like, it won't produce the evidence to support your claim.
...and before anyone chimes in, I AM NOT a Farage fan boi or remotely interested in his political party but he is being blamed for something which he didn't cause.
It was online fake news put out about the perpetrator being an illegal immigrant which sparked the riots.
The only comments I can ascertain as to being made by Farage was that he maintained that the police were withholding information which it transpires was actually true.
Because of the public's resentment of what is happening with the illegal Channel crossings, the police certainly downplayed the incident by saying that the perp was born in Wales and there were no links to terrorism which it again turns out there was.
The government, the police and the legal system are all colluding to control the narrative of everything in this country and people like yourself are standing idly by while our rights are covertly being taken away.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I assume you're comfortable that hate preachers who encourage their followers to take action also do not cause acts of terrorism?
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