US Election November 5th

[ey_tony]

Some very strange stuff here.
I'm assuming the third world tribal lunatics you refer to are the Afghans.
Do you know nothing of history. These people kicked us out of their country, when we were still a global superpower. They showed the USSR the door as well.
It was Trump that gave up the fight, and arranged the deal to withdraw, presenting Biden with a fait accompli.
Yes the actual withdrawal could have been handled better, but the speed with which the Taliban took over took everyone by surprise, again largely due to Trump agreeing to free them in advance of the withdrawal date.
Then let us look at Iran. The deal we had with them was far from perfect, but was a major step forward given Iran's recent history with the west.
If it were still in place it is very unlikely that the current war in Gaza and Lebanon would have come about, or that Iran would be supplying drones to Putin for use in Ukraine.
All he achieved was to turn Iran away from the beginnings of a more productive relationship with the west, and straight into the hands of Russia and China.
So perhaps you could enlighten us as to how that decision was anything other than monumentally stupid.
As for his meeting Kim what exactly came of that great piece of statesmanship, truly great, maybe the greatest piece of statesmanship ever.
Let me help you, the answer is SFA, other than probably giving Kim and Putin a good laugh.

If you knew anything about world history then you'd know that there has been a sectarian war/power struggle within Islam between the major sects ongoing since the 7th Century and is still alive and kicking today with several proxy power struggle wars being fought across the Middle East as we speak so try not to lecture about history and ME politics.
You might also look into the history books and look up Lawrence of Arabia to get a fairer perspective of how the West has broken promises and interfered with the region's politics post WW1 n order to understand their view of the West.
The West has been interfering in ME politics for it's own purposes and we all know why.
The West/America has been complicit in interfering and effecting regime changes in the ME in recent times. Just look at Iraq, Libya et al and it would have happened to Syria if Putin hadn't stepped in to prevent it.

I'm not an apologist for Israel but Iran's ambition is to wipe all Jews and Israel off the face of the earth.
As for the Afghans, they have defied all Western attempts to conquer them for centuries so it's not just the Russians or Americans who were shown the door.
The same applies to Communism...America sought to interfere with that too and look what happened..it couldn't defeat the communists in Vietnam even though the enemy was totally outclassed by America's technology.
Up to Trump taking the seat it was all about Americas weaponry in policing the so called free world. Trump was the first POTUS to attempt to reach out to the leader of NK so please don't be so dismissive in your left wing drivel about him. Had that been Biden et al who had reached out to NK they would have been applauding him and even given him a Nobel Prize for it.

As for the rest of your drivel if you really want critical debate then bring it on

 

[ey_tony]

View attachment 191622

Tell me why the message in that poster is wrong?

 

[Jacob]

Tell me why the message in that poster is wrong?

Can't you work it out for yourself? Have a try?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Can't you work it out for yourself? Have a try?

Is it the queue to leave after the budget?

 

[NickDReed]

They'd have ended up trying to firefight a by then well prepared Taliban force if they delayed. That could have been dealt with I suppose by ripping up the agreement and having a troop surge to manage the withdrawal.

I might be a bit confused so apologies if I have missed the point of your sentence above.

The Biden administration DID delay the withdrawal, which should have been completed under the original agreement by May 2021, until the symbolic date of Sept 11 2021. This happened in March 21, by July 21 Biden is talking about speed of withdrawal being critical to safety, and then by August the US are making a hasty exit from the country.

I'm not saying this supports or goes against your point to Spectrics post. Equally, I am not pro or anti Republican or Democrat in the US election this month I'm English and have no say in it. My point is one of being clear about the information, and in this case. That is a withdrawal agreement was put in place by the Trump administration, for better or worse that was the agreement. The Biden administration did not stick to that agreement in an attempt to withdraw at a defined later date, and then had to make a reactionary decision that preceded the clusterphuck that was the ultimate withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Saying the Trump administration is responsible is inaccurate.

 

[sploo]

OK I'll bite...explain how Farage is hate preaching? Explain what exactly Farage has said which you define as hate preaching and then we'll take the discussion from there as I thoroughly enjoy debating with people with your mindset!

He's got a long history of seeding the idea of us being under attack from foreigners, and stoking tensions through dog-whistle racism. The credulous morons that rioted after the Stockport atrocity didn't do it spontaneously; it's the result of years of fermenting fear.

I was going to post the Breaking Point poster, but I see that's already been raised. If you don't understand why that's a problem (including its deliberate evocation of Nazi era propaganda material) then I doubt anything I could say will imbue clue.

 

[sploo]

I have come across the perfect investment opportunity for the more discerning of you left wing guys...

I know a man who breeds Unicorns and he's looking for astute investors who can spot a good thing when it's on offer and judging by the posts on here some of you guys look like you'd make the perfect business partners to help grow his business.
It's the perfect opportunity for you to get on the investment ladder, in fact once you get into it I'd be very surprised at some point in the future if some of you didn't invest in and open your very own breeding program as it's an investment opportunity which appears to be just up your street

Just think your investment which while making money could also make such a difference by helping save a truly endangered species which I'm sure appeals to your left wing inspired generosity.
Don't waste too much time as opportunities like these don't come up every day...

Tony, for someone that does love to go on about the behaviour of others, the above really doesn't cover you in glory.

 

[ey_tony]

Tony, for someone that does love to go on about the behaviour of others, the above really doesn't cover you in glory.

I'm not remotely interested in being covered in glory...I simply try to add balance to the left tilted views of some posters and thought the investment opportunity would appeal to their level of intellect.

 

[Jake]

The Biden administration DID delay the withdrawal, which should have been completed under the original agreement by May 2021, until the symbolic date of Sept 11 2021.

Yes agreed, there was a short delay in withdrawing the final 2.5k troops which is all that were left in country when Biden took power.

This happened in March 21, by July 21 Biden is talking about speed of withdrawal being critical to safety, and then by August the US are making a hasty exit from the country.

Yes it was an operational mess - they were totally undermanned and the Afghan govt collapsed because the Taliban and allies had such a long time to prepare their attack and had all their key people released by Trump.

I'm not saying this supports or goes against your point to Spectrics post. Equally, I am not pro or anti Republican or Democrat in the US election this month I'm English and have no say in it. My point is one of being clear about the information, and in this case. That is a withdrawal agreement was put in place by the Trump administration, for better or worse that was the agreement.

OK, but that was the context of my comment - the surrender agreement was Trump's not Biden's.

The Biden administration did not stick to that agreement in an attempt to withdraw at a defined later date, and then had to make a reactionary decision that preceded the clusterphuck that was the ultimate withdrawal from Afghanistan.

I think that's a bit tenuous, they had been put in an awful predicament by Trump's uselessness, and had no good options. A temporary surge so US forces could protect themselves in retreat would in hindsight have been better idea tactically (but a very difficult proposition politically). The apparent failure to foresee how completely the Taliban had taken shadow control does not reflect well on the US intelligence community.

Saying the Trump administration is responsible is inaccurate.

There we disagree. I think the military did not plan the final retreat operation well enough (under Biden) - again, intelligence failings seem to have led them to believe that the Afghan forces would be able to cover their retreat rather than just collapsing. So operationally I do agree there were failings, but overall the die was cast by Trump's feckless surrender deal.

 

[John Brown]

I'm not remotely interested in being covered in glory...I simply try to add balance to the left tilted views of some posters and thought the investment opportunity would appeal to their level of intellect.

Really!?
Everyone knows that unicorns are usually sterile, like mules and hinnies. Your mate is obviously a con artist.

 

[sploo]

I'm not remotely interested in being covered in glory...I simply try to add balance to the left tilted views of some posters and thought the investment opportunity would appeal to their level of intellect.

You repeatedly complain about the behaviour of "the other lot", then post the above. It's just a bit sad really.

 

[Fergie 307]

If you knew anything about world history then you'd know that there has been a sectarian war/power struggle within Islam between the major sects ongoing since the 7th Century and is still alive and kicking today with several proxy power struggle wars being fought across the Middle East as we speak so try not to lecture about history and ME politics.
You might also look into the history books and look up Lawrence of Arabia to get a fairer perspective of how the West has broken promises and interfered with the region's politics post WW1 n order to understand their view of the West.
The West has been interfering in ME politics for it's own purposes and we all know why.
The West/America has been complicit in interfering and effecting regime changes in the ME in recent times. Just look at Iraq, Libya et al and it would have happened to Syria if Putin hadn't stepped in to prevent it.

I'm not an apologist for Israel but Iran's ambition is to wipe all Jews and Israel off the face of the earth.
As for the Afghans, they have defied all Western attempts to conquer them for centuries so it's not just the Russians or Americans who were shown the door.
The same applies to Communism...America sought to interfere with that too and look what happened..it couldn't defeat the communists in Vietnam even though the enemy was totally outclassed by America's technology.
Up to Trump taking the seat it was all about Americas weaponry in policing the so called free world. Trump was the first POTUS to attempt to reach out to the leader of NK so please don't be so dismissive in your left wing drivel about him. Had that been Biden et al who had reached out to NK they would have been applauding him and even given him a Nobel Prize for it.

As for the rest of your drivel if you really want critical debate then bring it on

Not much scope for debate with someone who either cannot read, or chooses to deliberately avoid the question asked.

Maybe you could have another try

Who benefited from Trumps decision to withdraw from the agreement with Iran, please share with us why that was a good move.

As for Kim, does it not occur to you that world leaders might think it unwise to appear to endorse his leadership when he was offering nothing in return.
So what exactly did Trump gain from that, for the US, world peace, increased stability in that part of the world or anything else?

I would argue that by fawning over Kim and getting absolutely nothing in return he just made himself look like a gullible fool.

I am far from left wing, indeed I dare say a few people who are familiar with my posts may have had a chuckle at that one.

But please, give us something other than just more MAGA tripe.

 

[ey_tony]

He's got a long history of seeding the idea of us being under attack from foreigners, and stoking tensions through dog-whistle racism. The credulous morons that rioted after the Stockport atrocity didn't do it spontaneously; it's the result of years of fermenting fear.

I was going to post the Breaking Point poster, but I see that's already been raised. If you don't understand why that's a problem (including its deliberate evocation of Nazi era propaganda material) then I doubt anything I could say will imbue clue.

The thing is he's not wrong...the Nation cannot afford to keep allowing immigration to flourish as it has been doing or are you suggesting it can? Even the European Union is taking steps to address what Farage has been saying for years.
Where is the infrastructure to cater for for the number of migrants coming here? There isn't a fully functioning infrastructure to deal with those living here let alone incomers.
That's the problem with left wing economics it doesn't embrace reality.

For starters Reeves could have saved the country a fair bit yesterday just by cutting immigrant accommodation down to one or two star hotels...why 3 or 4 star? If they're fleeing persecution as they claim then they would be grateful for even a tent let alone 3 or 4 star accommodation. I'd rather that money saved went into the pockets of the poorest already living here.

As for the poster...the only people who would associate that poster with Nazi's propaganda are your typical left wingers who don't appear to live in the real world.
Whether or you agree or disagree the numbers tell us one thing, the UK's population can't keep growing at the rate it is without everyone becoming poorer and if that's what you want fine but don't expect others to agree with your destructive thinking.

To quote Friedrich Hayek economist and winner of the Nobel Prize..."If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists"...and looking at the nonsense posted on here never a truer word was spoken.

 

[ey_tony]

Is it the queue to leave after the budget?

I'm sure the left supporters on here will welcome any distraction from this shower of clowns and their dung show of a budget. They must be terribly embarrassed at their comrade's behaviour in office so far. Starmer has the most unpopular government for such a short time in office in recent times....hardy unexpected given his lack-lustre days as an opposition leader.

Just wait until next May's local elections, I'm looking forward to seeing the results of those.

 

[NickDReed]

Yes agreed, there was a short delay in withdrawing the final 2.5k troops which is all that were left in country when Biden took power.


Yes it was an operational mess - they were totally undermanned and the Afghan govt collapsed because the Taliban and allies had such a long time to prepare their attack and had all their key people released by Trump.

OK, but that was the context of my comment - the surrender agreement was Trump's not Biden's.


I think that's a bit tenuous, they had been put in an awful predicament by Trump's uselessness, and had no good options. A temporary surge so US forces could protect themselves in retreat would in hindsight have been better idea tactically (but a very difficult proposition politically). The apparent failure to foresee how completely the Taliban had taken shadow control does not reflect well on the US intelligence community.

There we disagree. I think the military did not plan the final retreat operation well enough (under Biden) - again, intelligence failings seem to have led them to believe that the Afghan forces would be able to cover their retreat rather than just collapsing. So operationally I do agree there were failings, but overall the die was cast by Trump's feckless surrender deal.

I'm not sure how your point holds water. You're stating that the Biden administration were presented with a situation when to took power where they were undermanned in Afghanistan, they chose to stay there longer and allow the Taliban and their allies more time to exploit their vulnerability? I'm not a military strategist, but that doesn't sound like a great plan, nor does it sound like a decision made by the previous US administration.

I find the language used around this interesting. You repeatedly refer to the peace agreement between the US and the Taliban as a surrender agreement, as I believe have others on this thread. The US and allies had occupied Afghanistan for 20 years and no sustainable regime had been successfully installed, and looking to the future it was not likely that there would be one coming down the line. Appetite for continued occupation had long since diminished within the populations of the US and their allies. The broad consensus at the time was that the continued occupation/war in Afghanistan had to end at some point. Therefore the peace agreement was drawn up and agreed by the US, their allies, the UN security council and the Taliban agreeing to a positive future relationship the an Afghan government that would be formed through internal Afghan negotiation.

To suggest the US and their allies simply surrendered is not accurate and possibly misleading.

A discussion on whether there should have been an occupation in the first place, or whether there should have been certain levels of trust between those negotiating the peace agreement is a different conversation. An agreement was made, it turned out that neither the US or the Taliban stuck to all the aspects of the agreement. Any deal agreed was only 'feckless' once either side failed to comply with the agreement, and in this case, the Biden administration moving the goal posts on withdrawal timeframes appears to be the initial failure to comply with the original agreement.

I understand why people dislike Trump, I don't particularly like the man and there is plenty that can quite justifiably be levelled at him. But to misrepresent a situation in order to apportion blame or portray a narrative that is not accurate only weakens the validity of accurate information where blame can appropriately be apportioned.

 

[sploo]

The thing is he's not wrong...the Nation cannot afford to keep allowing immigration to flourish as it has been doing or are you suggesting it can? Even the European Union is taking steps to address what Farage has been saying for years.
Where is the infrastructure to cater for for the number of migrants coming here? There isn't a fully functioning infrastructure to deal with those living here let alone incomers.
That's the problem with left wing economics it doesn't embrace reality.

For starters Reeves could have saved the country a fair bit yesterday just by cutting immigrant accommodation down to one or two star hotels...why 3 or 4 star? If they're fleeing persecution as they claim then they would be grateful for even a tent let alone 3 or 4 star accommodation. I'd rather that money saved went into the pockets of the poorest already living here.

As for the poster...the only people who would associate that poster with Nazi's propaganda are your typical left wingers who don't appear to live in the real world.
Whether or you agree or disagree the numbers tell us one thing, the UK's population can't keep growing at the rate it is without everyone becoming poorer and if that's what you want fine but don't expect others to agree with your destructive thinking.

To quote Friedrich Hayek economist and winner of the Nobel Prize..."If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists"...and looking at the nonsense posted on here never a truer word was spoken.

As Fergie noted "Not much scope for debate with someone who either cannot read, or chooses to deliberately avoid the question asked."

Tony - given the total lack of understanding of reality you've posted above, I accept there's nothing that can be said to change your views. Please just take care of yourself and don't drive yourself to an early cardiac arrest due to the worrying about all these evil lefties.