US Election November 5th

[Delaney]

They are entitled to their views and may even be right.

Nonetheless Trump is bonkers, morally bankrupt, a bully, racist, xenophobic, a self obsessed egotist etc. Whether so unpleasant personality should be denied the presidency is debatable.

Personally I would be inclined to vote for someone who would likely govern with far greater humanity, and sacrifice some possible economic benefit.

Did you get all your ‘buzz words’ out Terry?

Trump has many failures and egregious personality traits but be generally gets the big calls right.
He is a walking contradiction.
I’m happy to overlook the noise and focus on the signal.

Lot’s of black, hispanics and asian voters love Trump. He’s more popular with them than any previous republican. So you can call him a racist and such but it’s all hot air.

 

[Delaney]

We’ve had this discussion before and clearly we see the world differently.

You’d like to leave Ukraine to whatever Putin wants to do with it and I believe in the not too distant future that would lead to even worse bloodshed and a bigger threat to world security.

I agree that the facts speak for themselves - if you look back at the previous discussion you’ll see the rationale for my view and that it’s been arrived at by a bit more effort than just watching 5 minutes of the BBC!

I’ve come to my conclusion based on the facts, that is why I think the way I do. I’m not interested in emotion because I’m a realist.

I feel deeply sorry for Ukraine, as I feel deeply sorry for countries orbiting the US who will never be allowed an economy that would in any way interfere with the US. This is the sad reality of all satelite countries around super powers.
If you think that in this case we should go to war with Russia to stop them exerting control over a satellite state, in their area of influence (which would be rank hypocrisy as a motivation), then let us be honest about it.
Let’s not pretend it’s about freedom and western values and standing up for the Ukrainian’s because we have no idea what they want. We only get to hear from them, what the west wants us to hear and any counter factual, will be dismissed as Russian propaganda. Which is how
propaganda works.

Before Nato got a hard on for Ukraine (likely for it’s fertile land, resources and ability to weaken Russian defences), 1 million more Ukrainians were alive, families in tact and they had homes. Sure the liberal elite in Ukraine wanted to join the EU and Nato, sure they hated Russia but as sad as it is, that doesn’t matter. There were people in Cuba who hated the US and wanted to align with Russia; do you think the US cared about that? I mean come on!

The Russian’s are not going to stop becuase they will not let Nato put missiles on their border and have access to Russia through Ukraine.
Russia has been invaded 3 x through Ukraine, it is where they are most vulnerable. That is why they are not going to let it fall into NATO hands and they will do whatever it takes to stop that and they can.
This is the cold hard truth.

So how many more Europeans do you want to die? Because that is all that is going to happen.
We are not going to give Putin a bloody nose, we are not going to ‘show him’, we are just going to cheer on the death and misery of millions of europeans for no useful outcome.

These are the facts. Everything else is just noise.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I’ve come to my conclusion based on the facts, that is why I think the way I do. I’m not interested in emotion because I’m a realist.

I feel deeply sorry for Ukraine, as I feel deeply sorry for countries orbiting the US who will never be allowed an economy that would in any way interfere with the US. This is the sad reality of all satelite countries around super powers.
If you think that in this case we should go to war with Russia to stop them exerting control over a satellite state, in their area of influence (which would be rank hypocrisy as a motivation), then let us be honest about it.
Let’s not pretend it’s about freedom and western values and standing up for the Ukrainian’s because we have no idea what they want. We only get to hear from them, what the west wants us to hear and any counter factual, will be dismissed as Russian propaganda. Which is how
propaganda works.

Before Nato got a hard on for Ukraine (likely for it’s fertile land, resources and ability to weaken Russian defences), 1 million more Ukrainians were alive, families in tact and they had homes. Sure the liberal elite in Ukraine wanted to join the EU and Nato, sure they hated Russia but as sad as it is, that doesn’t matter. There were people in Cuba who hated the US and wanted to align with Russia; do you think the US cared about that? I mean come on!

The Russian’s are not going to stop becuase they will not let Nato put missiles on their border and have access to Russia through Ukraine.
Russia has been invaded 3 x through Ukraine, it is where they are most vulnerable. That is why they are not going to let it fall into NATO hands and they will do whatever it takes to stop that and they can.
This is the cold hard truth.

So how many more Europeans do you want to die? Because that is all that is going to happen.
We are not going to give Putin a bloody nose, we are not going to ‘show him’, we are just going to cheer on the death and misery of millions of europeans for no useful outcome.

These are the facts. Everything else is just noise.

We’ve discussed all this before. My views are unchanged since then so I won’t repeat them.

It’s worth noting though that just because Jeffrey Sachs said it on YouTube doesn’t necessarily make it “the facts”.

Let’s just agree to differ.

 

[Delaney]

We’ve discussed all this before. My views are unchanged since then so I won’t repeat them.

It’s worth noting though that just because Jeffrey Sachs said it on YouTube doesn’t necessarily make it “the facts”.

Let’s just agree to differ.

My argument isn’t based on Jeffery Sachs, it's based on facts. There are countless more people on youtube who explain them as well. That video is just one example which neatly sums up the key points.
The reason why we keep going over this is because you keep misrepresenting the facts and my position.

Moving on.

 

[Fergie 307]

I’ve come to my conclusion based on the facts, that is why I think the way I do. I’m not interested in emotion because I’m a realist.

I feel deeply sorry for Ukraine, as I feel deeply sorry for countries orbiting the US who will never be allowed an economy that would in any way interfere with the US. This is the sad reality of all satelite countries around super powers.
If you think that in this case we should go to war with Russia to stop them exerting control over a satellite state, in their area of influence (which would be rank hypocrisy as a motivation), then let us be honest about it.
Let’s not pretend it’s about freedom and western values and standing up for the Ukrainian’s because we have no idea what they want. We only get to hear from them, what the west wants us to hear and any counter factual, will be dismissed as Russian propaganda. Which is how
propaganda works.

Before Nato got a hard on for Ukraine (likely for it’s fertile land, resources and ability to weaken Russian defences), 1 million more Ukrainians were alive, families in tact and they had homes. Sure the liberal elite in Ukraine wanted to join the EU and Nato, sure they hated Russia but as sad as it is, that doesn’t matter. There were people in Cuba who hated the US and wanted to align with Russia; do you think the US cared about that? I mean come on!

The Russian’s are not going to stop becuase they will not let Nato put missiles on their border and have access to Russia through Ukraine.
Russia has been invaded 3 x through Ukraine, it is where they are most vulnerable. That is why they are not going to let it fall into NATO hands and they will do whatever it takes to stop that and they can.
This is the cold hard truth.

So how many more Europeans do you want to die? Because that is all that is going to happen.
We are not going to give Putin a bloody nose, we are not going to ‘show him’, we are just going to cheer on the death and misery of millions of europeans for no useful outcome.

These are the facts. Everything else is just noise.

Have you spoken to Ukrainians about this?
I have spoken to quite a few who have come here. Their view is that they were please to be free of Russian influence, and saw joining the EU, and NATO as a natural progression to integrating with the neighbours. They just wanted to be left alone to make their own way in the world.
Those I have spoken to could by no means be viewed as members of a "liberal elite" (and how revealing it is that you should choose such an expression, straight from the Russian propaganda script).
Of course I suppose you will argue that any who have sought refuge in the UK must have been indoctrinated or brainwashed in some way.
You say Putin will not allow Ukraine to join NATO. What business is it of his what any other sovereign state choses to do? There have been NATO missiles pointed in his direction for years, that is a pretty lame excuse.
NATO is a purely defensive organisation, they haven't invaded anyone that I can recall.
Putin by contrast has made rather a habit of it.
So you are the one happily guzzling down Russian propaganda.
Was the recent strike at an arms depot within Russia western propaganda? Maybe it was just a fireworks display put on by Putin for the amusement of the locals.
And your suggestion in a previous post that Putin is happy for Ukrainian forces to occupy Russia soil in the Kursk region, so they can better be "shredded" is positively laughable.
What's gone wrong there, fuse blown in the shredder?

You need to wake up to some facts yourself.

 

[Delaney]

Have you spoken to Ukrainians about this?
I have spoken to quite a few who have come here. Their view is that they were please to be free of Russian influence, and saw joining the EU, and NATO as a natural progression to integrating with the neighbours. They just wanted to be left alone to make their own way in the world. Those I have spoken to could by no means be viewed as members of a "liberal elite" ( and what a revealing expression that is ).
Of course I suppose you will argue that any who have sought refuge in the UK must have been indoctrinated or brainwashed in some way.
You say Putin will not allow Ukraine to join NATO. What business is it of his what any other sovereign state choses to do? There have been NATO missiles pointed in his direction for years, that is a pretty lame excuse.
NATO is a purely defensive organisation, they haven't invaded anyone that I can recall.
Putin by contrast has made rather a habit of it.
So you are the one happily guzzling down Russian propaganda.
Was the recent strike at an arms depot within Russia western propaganda? Maybe it was just a fireworks display put on by Putin for the amusement of the locals.
And your suggestion in a previous post that Putin is happy for Ukrainian forces to occupy Russia soil in the Kursk region, so they can better be "shredded" is positively laughable.
What's gone wrong there, fuse blown in the shredder?

You need to wake up to some facts yourself.

How you can read what I’ve said and then write this stuff is beyond me.

I’m not sure what you think is “revealing” about the reality that liberal elites in Ukraine look westward; It’s just a fact.
Of course some people in Ukraine want to join the EU. That would be true of any population in Europe, including Russia!
Those people aren’t in control of the country and we actually don’t know how big they are in the general population. We do not have that data and your anecdotal polling, is just that.
That doesn’t mean they have to be a minority or a majority because frankly it’s irrelevant to the conflict. The people who ultimately decide the fate of Ukraine, is a hand full of people in the US and Russia.
That is the reality, regardless of how we feel about that.

You say on one hand ‘they want to be left alone’ but then you seem very keen for us to meddle in their affairs. Which one is it?

Nato might be a ‘defence’ pact between nations but it is also used by the likes of the US as an umbrella to house their missile systems. Nato is effectively the US. Unless you didn’t know that?

I’ve never once defended Putin. I have constantly said that Russia is not somewhete I would choose to live, nor a system I believe in.
No systems are perfect but the western system is the best we have and I support it.
What you have to come to terms with, is reality. Ukraine borders Russia, Russia is a suer power. You can be as upset about that as you want but that is the reality.

I would prefer that every Ukrainian who wants to live in the west, leaves Ukraine and comes and lives with us. That is the only real solution Ukrainians have, who don’t want to live in the sphere of Russian influence.
You can instead gin up conflict and watch the entire country be annihilated, if that is what you think is best.

When you start dealing with reality and not hysterical fever dreams, this will make more sense and less people are going to die.
Russia will if pushed, annihilate Ukraine. They have said so and from their actions I believe them.

Now what?

P.s please provide the quote where I said Ukrainians will get ‘shredded’.
I actually care a lot about the lives of Europeans, more so than those who recklessly want them sacrificed on the alter of ‘punching Putler’.

 

[Fergie 307]

"They seem to be keen for us to meddle in their affairs".
Not sure quite what you mean by that.
At the moment they are keen to accept our help in supplying the means to fight off a completely unwarranted invasion of their country.
Much as the Soviet Union were happy to accept vast quantities of war materiel from the West to fight off the Nazis.
Perhaps the Soviets should have just fled to the East and let Hitler get on with it, would certainly have saved a lot of lives.
Presumably in your view if Putin were to attack Poland for example, then all Poles should just shrug their shoulders and leave?
Where, if anywhere, would you think that process ought to stop? Germany, France, the channel?
I really have never read such utter boll***s.

 

[spanner48]

How you can read what I’ve said and then write this stuff is beyond me.

I’m not sure what you think is “revealing” about the reality that liberal elites in Ukraine look westward; It’s just a fact.
Of course some people in Ukraine want to join the EU. That would be true of any population in Europe, including Russia!
Those people aren’t in control of the country and we actually don’t know how big they are in the general population. We do not have that data and your anecdotal polling, is just that.
That doesn’t mean they have to be a minority or a majority because frankly it’s irrelevant to the conflict. The people who ultimately decide the fate of Ukraine, is a hand full of people in the US and Russia.
That is the reality, regardless of how we feel about that.

You say on one hand ‘they want to be left alone’ but then you seem very keen for us to meddle in their affairs. Which one is it?

Nato might be a ‘defence’ pact between nations but it is also used by the likes of the US as an umbrella to house their missile systems. Nato is effectively the US. Unless you didn’t know that?

I’ve never once defended Putin. I have constantly said that Russia is not somewhete I would choose to live, nor a system I believe in.
No systems are perfect but the western system is the best we have and I support it.
What you have to come to terms with, is reality. Ukraine borders Russia, Russia is a suer power. You can be as upset about that as you want but that is the reality.

I would prefer that every Ukrainian who wants to live in the west, leaves Ukraine and comes and lives with us. That is the only real solution Ukrainians have, who don’t want to live in the sphere of Russian influence.
You can instead gin up conflict and watch the entire country be annihilated, if that is what you think is best.

When you start dealing with reality and not hysterical fever dreams, this will make more sense and less people are going to die.
Russia will if pushed, annihilate Ukraine. They have said so and from their actions I believe them.

Now what?

P.s please provide the quote where I said Ukrainians will get ‘shredded’.
I actually care a lot about the lives of Europeans, more so than those who recklessly want them sacrificed on the alter of ‘punching Putler’.

"I would prefer that every Ukrainian who wants to live in the west, leaves Ukraine and comes and lives with us." ??? Sounds eerily like Hitler with Poland . . . .

 

[selectortone]

Those I have spoken to could by no means be viewed as members of a "liberal elite" (and how revealing it is that you should choose such an expression, straight from the Russian propaganda script).

Indeed revealing.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The reason why we keep going over this is because you keep misrepresenting the facts …

Moving on.

Strangely I could have said the same thing in my post …

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Defining countries, borders, sovereignty etc relies upon the application of international law which was agreed in principle under the United Nations Charter 1945.

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

There are a limited number of disputed borders across the globe of which Crimea (unsurprisingly) is one. It seems possible Eastern Ukraine will be added to that list.

Many borders were imposed without regard for religious, tribal, ethnic considerations - imperial or colonial powers dividing up the spoils. Particularly evident in the Middle East and Africa.

AIUI the treaty between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997 fixed the principle of strategic partnership, recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity.

The invasion by Russia of Crimea and now Ukraine violated this agreement. Whether the agreed borders made sense is a separate issue - Crimea and Donbas were heavily associated with Russian culture, ethnicity and language etc.

There is no sound legal basis for the invasion of Ukraine - it is more likely driven by:

• acquisition (theft) of the resources Ukraine has in abundance
• strategic location - particularly Crimea with dominant Black Sea access
• the steady encroachment of NATO and EU on to territory which was previously part of the wider Soviet Union

The failure to respond to the invasion of Crimea a decade ago simply encouraged Putin to believe he could act with impunity. Ukraine is the last remaining large country bordering Russia yet to become a NATO member - Finland and Sweden having joined in the last year.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The reason why we keep going over this is because you keep misrepresenting the facts and my position.

I think you’ve confused “misrepresenting the facts” with “having a different opinion”.

 

[Delaney]

"They seem to be keen for us to meddle in their affairs".
Not sure quite what you mean by that.
At the moment they are keen to accept our help in supplying the means to fight off a completely unwarranted invasion of their country.
Much as the Soviet Union were happy to accept vast quantities of war materiel from the West to fight off the Nazis.
Perhaps the Soviets should have just fled to the East and let Hitler get on with it, would certainly have saved a lot of lives.
Presumably in your view if Putin were to attack Poland for example, then all Poles should just shrug their shoulders and leave?
Where, if anywhere, would you think that process ought to stop? Germany, France, the channel?
I really have never read such utter boll***s.

I’m sorry but this isn’t a rational argument. Putin is not Hitler. We know this because he’s been in power for roughly 20 years and hasn’t invaded Poland, so let’s park that talking point.
I can tell you who has invaded Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and started a proxy war with Russia via Ukraine. Yes you've guessed it, Nato countries.
Does that make us Hitler by your metric? Ok so let’s talk sensibly.

Russia had said repeatedly to the west that Ukraine is a red line. You can think what you want about that and it's fair to say “why should Russia have control over Ukraine” and I understand that, I wouldn’t want it to be and the world is full of unfair situations; but the US has control over every country in its hemisphere. This is just the reality of living next to a super power. I’m not trying to make an emotional argument here, this a purely factual matter of reality, regardless of what I think.

Russia wants startegic parts of Ukraine for its defence. Ukraine is the open straights that Russia can be invaded by from the west. Russia wants to control that area (by force if it has to), in order to protect its borders.
Russia in effect wants to wall itself off geographically and die.
The big irony here and the sad part of it, is that Russia does not have the demographics to conquer Ukraine, and run it. That is why it DID NOT invaded it post the USSR collapse. In a decade or two Russia will have no viable future due to demographic decline. The US and the EU know this, so if they wanted Ukraine and to take it without firing a shot, they just have to wait 20-50 years.

The problems started when the US and the EU, went meddling in Russia's cozy little situation. They started fermenting impossible ideas of joining the EU, of being in Nato to Ukraine. They funnelled billions into NGO’s and organisations on the ground, to nudge the those open to it, the idea of breaking away from Russia. Think coloured revolution in Syria. This culminated in a coup in 2014 and the deposing of the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and replacement with a western puppet. Effectively what Russia would do but done by us.

That is when Russia said enough. Whether you agree with it or not, that is the reality and it’s perfectly understandable if you understand how super powers operate. They do not stand for foreign political meddling in their hemisphere. Especially by a larger super power that threatens their hegemony. This is 1+1 = 2 stuff.
So in effect, Russia had not choice but to invade Ukraine and take what it wanted. They said to us, if you do X, Y will happen. We said ’so what’ and did X.

That is all there is to it.

 

[Delaney]

Defining countries, borders, sovereignty etc relies upon the application of international law which was agreed in principle under the United Nations Charter 1945.

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

There are a limited number of disputed borders across the globe of which Crimea (unsurprisingly) is one. It seems possible Eastern Ukraine will be added to that list.

Many borders were imposed without regard for religious, tribal, ethnic considerations - imperial or colonial powers dividing up the spoils. Particularly evident in the Middle East and Africa.

AIUI the treaty between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997 fixed the principle of strategic partnership, recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity.

The invasion by Russia of Crimea and now Ukraine violated this agreement. Whether the agreed borders made sense is a separate issue - Crimea and Donbas were heavily associated with Russian culture, ethnicity and language etc.

There is no sound legal basis for the invasion of Ukraine - it is more likely driven by:

• acquisition (theft) of the resources Ukraine has in abundance
• strategic location - particularly Crimea with dominant Black Sea access
• the steady encroachment of NATO and EU on to territory which was previously part of the wider Soviet Union

The failure to respond to the invasion of Crimea a decade ago simply encouraged Putin to believe he could act with impunity. Ukraine is the last remaining large country bordering Russia yet to become a NATO member - Finland and Sweden having joined in the last year.

I think you’re right on about 75% of it.

As much as I dislike Putin and dictatorial leaders, I don’t think it was a case of Putian acting with impunity. It was a case of the west deciding that Ukrainians were an acceptable loss/risk/collateral damage, for fermenting war with Putin. They knew what would happen; everyone kept telling them. Putin doesn't want Ukraine, they can’t run it. They had a perfectly happy agreement and Russia is not short of resources.
I think the US is becoming a bit paranoid Schizophrenic. Too much debt, too many issues with China. The US sees a mult polar Russia, China, India etc.. as a threat and so they are trying to weaken and or take out players in that coalition.
Iran being next. Basically BRICS + freinds
But I think the US is biting off more than it can chew. I think we’ll see a wind down of the Ukraine war in a few months and the attention turned to Iran.

The Ukraine experiment is over. I hope Ukraine get’s some of its country back but I suspect Russia will take at least 50% +

 

[Agent_zed]

Your summation of the entire situation seems to forget some facts and completely ignores the small issue of the Ukrainian people.

The reason Ukraine hasn't fallen to Russia is because most Ukrainians don't want to be Russians! They remember life under the Soviets and how millions were killed by Stalin's Russia.

Russia wants startegic parts of Ukraine for its defence. Ukraine is the open straights that Russia can be invaded by from the west. Russia wants to control that area (by force if it has to), in order to protect its borders.

So what?! This is such a weird argument. We can apply the same logic to any country with a border. Poland could take Belarus using your logic if it wants it for strategic defence against Russia. Heck maybe we should invade France just incase Germany decides to try again

The idea that Russia is ever likely to be invaded from the West, so they have to invade neighbouring countries first, is just Putin propaganda. In itself is just ridiculous, for a start Germany was hugely dependant on oil/gas and was happily paying them billions. Nobody was amassing troops on the borders, nobody was ever going to start anything with Russia. The only possible country that would invade Russia is China and ironically they are more likely to get territory back now than ever before.

Whilst the West's hands certainly aren't clean in many situations around the world, Ukraine was just a land grab by Russia whilst it thought everyone was too busy to care. My own take is that Putin probably has numerous health issues and figured he'd go out as the guy who took Ukraine back to soviet Russia.

Still on the bright side if Trump gets in it'll all be sorted in 24hours...apparently

 

[Noel]

I’ve come to my conclusion based on the facts, that is why I think the way I do. I’m not interested in emotion because I’m a realist.

I feel deeply sorry for Ukraine, as I feel deeply sorry for countries orbiting the US who will never be allowed an economy that would in any way interfere with the US. This is the sad reality of all satelite countries around super powers.
If you think that in this case we should go to war with Russia to stop them exerting control over a satellite state, in their area of influence (which would be rank hypocrisy as a motivation), then let us be honest about it.
Let’s not pretend it’s about freedom and western values and standing up for the Ukrainian’s because we have no idea what they want. We only get to hear from them, what the west wants us to hear and any counter factual, will be dismissed as Russian propaganda. Which is how
propaganda works.

Before Nato got a hard on for Ukraine (likely for it’s fertile land, resources and ability to weaken Russian defences), 1 million more Ukrainians were alive, families in tact and they had homes. Sure the liberal elite in Ukraine wanted to join the EU and Nato, sure they hated Russia but as sad as it is, that doesn’t matter. There were people in Cuba who hated the US and wanted to align with Russia; do you think the US cared about that? I mean come on!

The Russian’s are not going to stop becuase they will not let Nato put missiles on their border and have access to Russia through Ukraine.
Russia has been invaded 3 x through Ukraine, it is where they are most vulnerable. That is why they are not going to let it fall into NATO hands and they will do whatever it takes to stop that and they can.
This is the cold hard truth.

So how many more Europeans do you want to die? Because that is all that is going to happen.
We are not going to give Putin a bloody nose, we are not going to ‘show him’, we are just going to cheer on the death and misery of millions of europeans for no useful outcome.

These are the facts. Everything else is just noise.

The shill for Putin and Xi, big mate and supporter of RFK Junior? That Jeffery Sachs?

 

[Blackswanwood]

The shill for Putin and Xi, big mate and supporter of RFK Junior? That Jeffery Sachs?

That's the one!

 

[Blackswanwood]

My own take is that Putin probably has numerous health issues and figured he'd go out as the guy who took Ukraine back to soviet Russia.

I'm not so sure about the health problems but agree about Putin wanting to be the "saviour" who takes Ukraine back. I think it was in 2014 that Putin wrote an essay that has been rewritten a few times since which starts to make the case that parts of Ukraine belong to Russia. In his interview with Tucker Carlson more recently he simply questions the right of Ukraine to exist.

 

[Delaney]

Your summation of the entire situation seems to forget some facts and completely ignores the small issue of the Ukrainian people.

The reason Ukraine hasn't fallen to Russia is because most Ukrainians don't want to be Russians! They remember life under the Soviets and how millions were killed by Stalin's Russia.



So what?! This is such a weird argument. We can apply the same logic to any country with a border. Poland could take Belarus using your logic if it wants it for strategic defence against Russia. Heck maybe we should invade France just incase Germany decides to try again

The idea that Russia is ever likely to be invaded from the West, so they have to invade neighbouring countries first, is just Putin propaganda. In itself is just ridiculous, for a start Germany was hugely dependant on oil/gas and was happily paying them billions. Nobody was amassing troops on the borders, nobody was ever going to start anything with Russia. The only possible country that would invade Russia is China and ironically they are more likely to get territory back now than ever before.

Whilst the West's hands certainly aren't clean in many situations around the world, Ukraine was just a land grab by Russia whilst it thought everyone was too busy to care. My own take is that Putin probably has numerous health issues and figured he'd go out as the guy who took Ukraine back to soviet Russia.

Still on the bright side if Trump gets in it'll all be sorted in 24hours...apparently

In a way yes, my argument does ignore the Ukrainian people. I see them as deeply unfortunate pawns in a geo-political war. Some of them have allegiances one way, others have it another. I can't tell you how many are pro or against. I can tell you that watching men being beaten and sent to the front line with essentially no training, where life expectancy is about 8 hours, is not an example of “anti Russian sentiment’.
I can also guess that many of those who have lost a father, mother, child, entiure family, neigbourhood, wished the whole thing had never happened; but they were never really given a choice.

Poland could take Belarus but it likely won’t (for now) given that Belarus is ally of Russia and that wouldn't end well for Poland.
To assume that Polands days of invading or going to war are over, because you only think of this current moment in time, is short sighted.

You talk about ‘land grabbing’ but who is going to pay for the rebuioding of Ukraine? And who will end up owning all the resources? It won;t be Ukrainians. It will be America. That’s the real attempt at land grabbing because it involves war and death to achieve it. Russia was quite happy to have a Russian friendly elected PM and for people to go about their day. America needed this war to happen and they will be the beneficiaries, unless Putian has other plans.

 

[Delaney]

The shill for Putin and Xi, big mate and supporter of RFK Junior? That Jeffery Sachs?

The very same.

He's an economist, he shills for markets.