Trading Labour

[Adam]

In another topic not far away https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?p=52269, someone mentioned not being offered, or even recognised, for the work they did to help a "mate".

Recently, I helped sort out a mates computer, it took three evenings, of maybe 2 hours a night, and he got me six bottles of wine by way of a thankyou, and got me a pint at the pub. I thought this was a nice gesture given I already owed him a large favour anyway.

Normally however, it seems to me, people don't recognise either the amount of effort it takes you to help them make their "widget" or just knock up a set of shelves etc. Especially when you preprepare the material at home, without them seeing.

Not only that, they fail to recognise the wear and tear on cutters, the investment in the workshop, etc etc.

This is the main reason I'm basically unwilling to make projects for other people, they never recognise the effort that has gone in. Of course family is different, and I will go and do any construction/woodworking they need. As you know you can call back the favour in full at a different time.

Anyone else?

Adam

 

[tim]

Normally however, it seems to me, people don't recognise either the amount of effort it takes you to help them make their "widget" or just knock up a set of shelves etc. Especially when you preprepare the material at home, without them seeing.

The last part is especially true - even when it comes to paying customers. Its a little bit like when you say that you are 'working from home'; everyone in the office thinks that you are mowing the lawn!

In fairness though, its not just a case of them of not recognising the amount of effort, they really just don't understand it or even think of it. If they really did know and chose to ignore the amount of effort then thats unforgiveable.

I had a mate round the other weekend who hadn't been here for ages and wanted to see the workshop and timber store etc. He was asking about the different types of timber etc and had just seen some prepared walnut in the workshop and asked what the big slab of brown wood was in the store (which was also walnut). He was incredulous that one turned into the other (with not a little help from me). He is a very bright guy and he admitted that now I had shown him it was obvious but he'd never comtemplated it before.

Cheers

Tim

 

[kityuser]

for non family member I always INSIST on paying for any time.

1) because I like to pay my way
2) (how to make this not sound NASTY) I don`t feel guilty when my services are required but I`m too busy.

the above may sound harsh but in my limited experience I find people start to take the p**s.

thats why I don`t build/repair PCs anymore, I could have made a Bucket load of cash out of it (no mister tax man, I did`nt), but people really do start to get on ones nerves when they are`nt a family member.

phone calls at 10PM are not welcome, I don`t care what you`ve done to your new PC!


however I`ve sat up `till 3AM with my father in law getting him back "square" after an internet mishap :roll:
(to mother in law) "no you always get these things happening, doesnt matter what website you visit, it does`nt have to be anything iffy........."
(to father in law) "you`re old enought to be her grandfather, shame on you "

*chuckle*

steve

 

[wizer]

With regards to PC work (as i am in IT). I will do work for family and friends free of charge. However my terms are that in 99% of cases I will insist on them bringing their PC to me and me working on it in my own time.

 

[Anonymous]

Every time I visit my inlaws I get the question

could you just nip up to the computer room and look at........

Rebuilt 3 PCs for family last week - FOC :?

Interestingly, my brother recently asked me to make him a hi fi cabinet out of hardwood as he didn't like the look of any he had seen. No probs says I. You just pay for the wood (he likes Cedar, Oak and Cherry) and I will build it.
Priced the wood up at circa £180-£200. He bought a pine unit from Argos :lol:

 

[Adam]

Wizer,

Thats the conclusion I came to. I find not only do I want to start a download/installation and leave it running and go do something else, I need a good, working, virus free PC to use to sniff out the answers to any problems on the "infected" PC. Also, I can then use my broadband connection to get speedier downloads.

Adam

 

[wizer]

I also use Norton Ghost on all family and friends PC's. Anything goes wrong it goes back to my original working build.

Works for me.

 

[gidon]

It's a tricky one Adam I agree. Woodwork-wise I have only made things for family. And I usually take the time to just them just how much effort has gone into it! WIP shots are good for this.

Every time I visit my inlaws I get the question

could you just nip up to the computer room and look at........

Can relate to this! What I've found though in the last couple of years is there's very rarely quick fixes to their problems. I think I may adopt the idea of bringing their equipment to me.

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Midnight]

As you know you can call back the favour in full at a different time.

mannnnnnnnnnnnnnn how I wish....!!!!!!!!

 

[Charley]

Wizer,

Thats the conclusion I came to. I find not only do I want to start a download/installation and leave it running and go do something else, I need a good, working, virus free PC to use to sniff out the answers to any problems on the "infected" PC. Also, I can then use my broadband connection to get speedier downloads.

Adam

Yes that's the best way IMO. Your own desk, fast connection and a clean machine to google + You always take disks/cd's you think you might need and then find out you've left the one you actually need :roll:

 

[wizer]

I have a 'test bench' which I can hook the poorly PC up to network, KVM, sound, power, etc. Makes this work a doddle and I can do it while still doing my regular work.

 

[CHJ]

Anyone like to volunteer to fix a nice shiny black IBM running XP Home that has just been brought round by a neighbor. (and for the past 6 years a very good friend)

Complete reformat, instal and update required.

The daughter Opened a Picture file that arrived whilst on a Chat network.

Whatever cold the machine caught it switched off the Anti virus (AVG) and the Firewall (ZA)before the machine was shut down.

Not a problem until said daughter made several attempts to connect to the internet, and change the new default web page without AV & FW.

Everything is now disabled.
No web access allowed to any AV site.
No access to M$ sites.
Will not allow any make of AV software to be loaded.
No access to windows System Restore.
No access to registry.
Repairing Windows no good, nasty still resident.

They have waited 3 weeks for me to return to UK, they are going to have to wait a little longer I'm afraid.

Looking at the Virus Vault there are 43 trojans and other nasties stored there.

And you guessed it, the virus definitions were 1 month out of date.

Does anyone know of a nag screen that won't go away until they update the AV and Pest reducing software.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Chas

Does anyone know of a nag screen that won't go away until they update the AV and Pest reducing software.

I'm sorry it won't help you much, but we use a SonicWall and also the SonicWall/McAfee AV which doesn't allow you onto the net unless you have the latest definitions.

It certainly makes for an easier life.

Cheers
Neil

 

[CHJ]

Hi Chas

Does anyone know of a nag screen that won't go away until they update the AV and Pest reducing software.

I'm sorry it won't help you much, but we use a SonicWall and also the SonicWall/McAfee AV which doesn't allow you onto the net unless you have the latest definitions.

It certainly makes for an easier life.

Cheers
Neil

Thanks Neil I will look into that solution, but I don't think I could talk them into any sort of Hardware Firewall.

I run Smoothwall myself but I do not see this particular household having the discipline to run and maintain such.

Will look into an In the face Nag Screen at boot up to try and force compliance.

 

[kityuser]

that sounds like exactly what I had to sort out (previous post)

no regedit
no msconfig
no msupdate
no virus install (tried Mcafee, Norton and sophos)

sophos pre-install picked up 40 odd bugs and counting before it crashed.

firewall was`nt on, pre SP2, no anti virus........... broadband was a kiss of death.

used ghost to return to factory condition and started (slowly) from the ground up.

one tip I would pass on is not to run your everyday profile as an administrator, you can limit SOME nastys by using a "user" profile with restrictions.
handy for sprogs...........

I shudder to think what they`ve done to it already *sobb*


steve

 

[beech1948]

Now just hold on a minute guys.

Here you are moaning about computer users who know much less than you about PCs. Well tough. Most people don't have the time, access, need or means to learn what you know about PCs. So why not just recognise that.

In terms of trading labour I think that the issue is one of how do we help family first...after all we love em' so lets help them free. By the way they are the same as the idiots who know now't but thein family.

Then the neigbours. A bit different but the issue is really what responsibility do we have for our neighbours...after all it might be just a matter of degree.....so if the PC is completely broken then perhaps telling them that then advise them where to find the local PC doctor is the best thing to do. Plus a free lecture on what discipline to adopt to prevent this from happening again.

When they say " you know so much etc etc can you fix it " the answer is always " but I am so busy, I can do a diagnosis for you but I can't take the responsibility for fixing it" seems a sound way out of the dilema.

Of course don't forget to celebrate your knowledge, don't forget to celebrate their returned to spec PC, don't forget to celebrate independence

 

[kityuser]

family always comes first although I start to grumble when i have to "just" fix the same mistake the 3rd time round.

I agree it is harsh grubling about people who have far less knowledge in these areas.

however people (not always family) know don`t listen tend to frustrate me.


steve

 

[beech1948]

I think for others, than family that is, I don't mind an hour spent helping but after that I do not want to help....I might lose sight of my family if I helped so much. I thinlk people should be willing to go to their local PC doctor service....and pay for results.

 

[Waka]

What an interesting thread, started with woodwork and ended up on computers.

Myself I know nothing about the internals of computers, only how to use them and mess them up. for this I call in the local computer doctor who puts it all right, I'm happy and he's happy with cash in hand.

Now for woodwork O frequently do things for neighbours and make a lot of things for the local church. It gives me great satisfaction to helppeople that don't have the tools or skills. Do I charge them, no not even for the wood, mind you these are usually not big ticket items and invariably I have the wood for the job lying around the workshop.

I know you'll say I'm nuts, but I'm not into woodworking to make a living, Ido it because I enjoy working with wood and lets face it the more practice you get the more proficient you become.

My only proviso is that they will have to get in the cue, justlike the family.

Hope \i haven't opened a hornets nest?

Wellbetter go a pack me sandwiches for Yandles

 

[Steve Maskery]

Perhaps we can broaden this out a bit.

In another lifetime I used to be a magician. Rabbits out of hats at little Johnny's 6th birthday party, that sort of thing. Sad, I know, but true nonetheless.

In the magic world there has always been an argument about the Pros and the Amateurs. The complaint is that Amateurs would be happy to go out on a Saturday afternoon for twenty quid, because they enjoy it and is is beer money which Mr Brown never sees. The Pros argue that they cannot make a living doing shows for twenty quid, and the only reason that the Ams do it is because they have a nice cushy job/pension that pays the bill and this is just a hobby. But they compete for the same business. Of course, when the Ams find themselves redundant at 52 and discover that doing kids parties is one of the very few marketable skills they have, the idea of a £20 return doesn't seem quite as attractive.

It seems to me that the same arguments can be extended to woodwork and computers. In woodwork we are competing against a peasant in China, (and being less competitive), in computing we are being the cheap handyman (and competing against the PC Doctor).

In both cases the real value of the work goes unrecognised. It seems to me that we, as a body, are our own worst enemies.

OK folks, shoot me down.

Steve