Track saw technique?

[Chris152]

Very pleased with my upgraded cutting table and track clamps for doing square cuts on my track saw, today I decided to cut the ends of a table top square. To my horror they didn't cut square - the cuts deviated to the right of the cutting strip of the track progressively as the saw made the cut - in the end the cuts were a few mm from where it should have been, and there was snipe at the end and burn marks.

I spent a good while checking all was square on the track and the saw (blade to plate, plate to track, blade not warped), all fine, and then found a discussion of the correct alignment of the blade relative to the cut (toe-in) and pressure to keep the toe in as the cut is made. I tried to cut again and it was way better.

I'm not sure the problem was all technique as the final cuts still weren't perfect, but maybe that's down to the need for better technique again? I had no idea there is technique to using a track saw, I thought you just pushed at the right speed and the track sorted everything else out?

 

[Bodgers]

Keep the rail clamped in and make a half depth cut first then a full depth. If its burning and you are getting some kind of deflection sounds like you are bogging the saw down and its spending too long cutting, hence burning.

On my Dewalt tracksaw it will burn a 40mm bit of solid Beech worktop if I don't do it in two cuts. I've never seen any deflection though.

What saw is it?

 

[Chris152]

It's the much-sought-after Titan from Screwfix. It did occur to me that it might be time to get something better, but truth is I suspect my technique is worse than the saw.

edit - I'll certainly try the half-cut then full cut technique. Funnily enough, I tried to make it happen on a piece of 18 mm ply so I could photograph the deviation, but it made a perfect cut - maybe I'm pushing harder/ more off-course because of the resistance 20 mm maple offers.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I get burning if I don't set a sensible speed for the motor, but I've not managed to skew it, although I do use rail clamps if it's practical.

Mine is a Makita, and Rafezetter of this parish has it at the mo, to do some door trimming - interior house doors, I mean, not kitchen cupboards.

If he spots this topic, he might comment on how he's been getting on...

 

[SteveF]

what tooth blade are you using?
I wonder if it was a bit "fine" for a hardwood tabletop
I know you said cross cutting but may be your issue if taking a deep cut

Steve

 

[NickN]

Having instantly placed 1st in my list of most-used power tools as soon as I bought my Dewalt 520, and not budged from that spot since, I can agree with previous posts that:

a) clamping the track (with the little Dewalt clamps, in my case) and;
b) double sawing anything over 20mm

seems to have prevented any issues of the type you have described. I am still using the standard blade that came with the saw, seems to cope with anything I throw at it.

I should add that for sheet ply/OSB under 20mm I never clamp, as long as the track is level and the sheet flat it works fine.

 

[Rorschach]

There seems to be a bit of learning curve to use a track saw properly I have found. I definitely think that clamping helps though.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks all.

I get burning if I don't set a sensible speed for the motor

That is one clear difference, Eric - mine only works at one speed.

what tooth blade are you using?
I wonder if it was a bit "fine" for a hardwood tabletop

It's a 40 tooth blade, Steve, cutting through about 22 mm maple - is that a good choice? Maybe the two cuts method will help.

The clamps seem to work fine - I tried the setup on some 2 x 3 inch lengths of cls (which I clamped to the table, and the track clamped to the stock) at the weekend and it cut fine. Felt much safer on the 50 cm of maple, too.

 

[Marineboy]

Have used my Festool for over two years now and I have never clamped the track. I did buy the trigger type clamps but never used them. The sticky strips on the base hold the track perfectly in position and I have never got less than perfect and accurate cuts.

 

[MattRoberts]

I suspect it's a poor quality blade. You would do well to get a decent one - a freud or even a trend blade would show a difference

 

[Chris152]

what tooth blade are you using?
I wonder if it was a bit "fine" for a hardwood tabletop

It's a 40 tooth blade, Steve, cutting through about 22 mm maple - is that a good choice?

Sorry - it's 60 teeth, not 40. Is that more likely to stray?

Matt - would something like this do?
https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Fre ... -Saw-Blade
The blade's only 1.7 mm width as opposed to the 2.2 that came with the saw and the replacement I bought, so the chip strip won't reach without moving but I can do that.

The problem with trying to trouble-shoot a problem like this is it can cost a fortune - if the blade makes no difference, maybe it's the jointed track, and so on. Which, of course, is an argument for getting that Festool 55 and have done with it... :shock:

Thanks

 

[Eric The Viking]

Don't get a thin kerf blade, or one with a thin plate!

That will (a) give you a poorer quality cut, because the blade vibrates more, (b) mess up the system's geometry.

You need a blade with fewer teeth. I use 24-tooth for general purposes, and 40 for fine finish. I don't know if your saw can easily do scoring cuts, but that will give an excellent finish to the upper surfaces. You don't really need a special setting. Simply set the depth to 1 or 2mm, make the scoring cut (I do it backwards, but that probably doesn't matter), then repeat to full depth (forwards, this time!).

The one time I tried thin blades, I had some nasty kickback* ripping old resinous pine. I won't do that again!

E.

*The Makita has no riving knife. In that incident it would have helped, as the cut closed up behind the blade, because of released tension in the wood.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

60t is very fine but a track saw should still do 22mm of maple with it I'd have thought...

The deviation is very likely to be due to a poor blade. I'd go with a replacement Freud. For 22mm, 40t would likely be OK, but without knowing your particular saw, it's hard to be certain. I have freud blades on my mitre saw and wont use anything else now.

If you use a track saw a lot, the TS55/75 are hard to beat. I use the stock fine Festool blade which is 48t (2.2mm) in my 55 and it will cut 50mm of black walnut without burning in a single pass (although I tend to do two on such a depth) and leave a very good finish....I know people say stuff about Festool being overpriced, but I've never once had to worry about it not doing what I asked of it, then theres the dust extraction benefit too. Festool blades are pricey, but last a long long time.

Unlike Marineboy though, I have had to clamp my track, generally on final dimension cuts when the top is at say, 220 grit. Track is grippy, but loses that a bit once it gets dust on it. I tend to clamp it anyway just to rule out another potential source of error, it only takes seconds.

 

[Chris152]

Ok, thanks Eric, I'll stick to 2.2 mm. I wonder if I should refit the 24 t blade it came with and try that. Of course, my lovely maple table top isn't as long as it once was with all these trial cuts, which is disturbing! But I need to get this sorted.

I just tried cutting twice and again, it's better but there's still some burning and a little snipe at the end (could easily still be poor technique). It's like the saw's being pulled away from the guide and wants to return as the blade leaves the wood.

Maybe this one (the 48T version)?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-165mm ... e-ax921665

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Martin - is this the blade you use?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/festool-cros ... GwodE68Nig
Once I get to that price, I do start to wonder if £60 off a TS55 would be a better option. Hmmm...

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Thanks Martin - is this the blade you use?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/festool-cros ... GwodE68Nig
Once I get to that price, I do start to wonder if £60 off a TS55 would be a better option. Hmmm...

Yes but I dont pay screwfix price for them! £60, ouch.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Chris, can you post any pics of the cuts you're getting?

It sounds slightly weird, in that if the saw alignment was off sufficiently to cause burning, I would have expected it to be at the other end of the cut. The blade may simply be blunt or gooed up - worth a clean with oven cleaner, just to see. The only other obvious thing is the track slider adjusters. I don't know your saw, but there are two adjusters on mine - screwing them down makes the saw stiffer on the track but also reduces the play. You do need to get this adjustment right - too loose and the blade can "wobble" (for want of a better word). Too tight and it's stiff to move and will wear the track a bit.

E.

And for the record, I love Freud tooling generally (have one for my TS, used them on several mitre saws down the years and have a few of their router cutters too). They are excellent, but the one you linked to isn't suitable for a track saw.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Eric - I don't know if it was resin on the blade or what (it was v cheap and maybe a false economy, in retrospect), but it was definitely the blade. I refitted the blade that came with the saw and it cuts fine - 24 tooth and it left marking and not perfect on top, but it cut straight and no burning.

Now I just need to find a new blade around the 40T mark that'll fit it - I've had no luck finding a 165 x 20 x 2.2 Freud by visiting various online shops and the Freud site doesn't seem to have any that size?! Did you mean the Makita's not suitable, Eric? (http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-165mm ... e-ax921665)

 

[skipdiver]

I have the Makita which came with a 48t blade and these are good for general purpose use fitting kitchens, which is what it was mainly purchased for. Never tried to cut a worktop in one pass though. While getting my blades sharpened, i found myself needing to use my saw unexpectedly and didn't have a blade to hand, so i bought a cheap Craftpro Trend one from ebay for about £15. It was costing me getting on for that to have my Makita blades sharpened, so whenever i had a kitchen fitting job coming up, i would buy a new Craftpro blade and throw it away when blunt. They are decent for the money and can be had cheap if you shop around.

 

[MattRoberts]

Chris, I have a Trend blade in mine, and am very happy with it. Mine's 210mm, but an equivalent one for yours would be something like this: https://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/ ... 20mm_.html