Tools for Dovetails

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When I cut lap-dovetails, (or half-blind, if you wish) to get the kerf completely down to the shoulder-line, and right up to the lap, I use the front end of a very old tenon saw with a steel back.

I place it in the kerf (Which is a diagonal, half-depth kerf, remember'), and I give it whack with a 1/2 lb hammer. That sees to the bit of the kerf that the dovetail saw couldn't reach. The chiselling is much easier after that.

Right folks, I have donned my tin-hat, so fire away!

John
 
studders":2v9jbo69 said:
Tony Spear":2v9jbo69 said:
studders":2v9jbo69 said:
lurker":2v9jbo69 said:
Please stop slagging Jacob off .................. he talks a lot of sense (until he starts on about bluddy chisel sharpening :roll:)

Amen to that. :lol:

Amen to wot?

Talks a lot of sense or bluddy chisel sharpening?

Sharpening Ol' Boy. Talks sense much of the time otherwise. :lol:
My chisels and planes are very sharp though, even if my method is ridiculous and a bit too speedy for the plodding, painstaking, jig fiddlers!
 
Jacob, ignore the thread sidetrackers (who have little to contribute, so they start with one another over petty matters). Get back on track ..

Have you tried the different sawing method?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Jacob, ignore the thread sidetrackers (who have little to contribute, so they start with one another over petty matters). Get back on track ..

Have you tried the different sawing method?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I find it works well with my 'Wenzloff' Derek.
Now, have you tried mine? (Dovetail 'sawing' method, that is!) Make sure it's an old saw though!
:D

John
 
Jacob, ignore the thread sidetrackers (who have little to contribute, so they start with one another over petty matters). Get back on track ..

Have you tried the different sawing method?

Regards from Perth

Derek
I'll have a closer look later Derek but I think I've tried all methods at one time or another. What I'm on about is just getting the kerf started with a neat clean edge against the line- after that you can saw away freely, dropping down the line on the face just like you are doing, only with the saw staying within the kerf from the beginning.
 
mr grimsdale":3g6b0lr2 said:
My chisels and planes are very sharp though, even if my method is ridiculous and a bit too speedy for the plodding, painstaking, jig fiddlers!

I never said your method was ridiculous. You just don't seem to get it though Mr Grim, some people, me included, actually enjoy the sharpening process as much as the rest of hobby woodworking. So if that means being a 'plodding jig fiddler' then so be it.
So, when you stop taking the piss out of my methods I'll stop taking the piss out of yours. I think that's fair.
 
mr grimsdale":1m2quthm said:
I'll have a closer look later Derek but I think I've tried all methods at one time or another. What I'm on about is just getting the kerf started with a neat clean edge against the line- after that you can saw away freely, dropping down the line on the face just like you are doing, only with the saw staying within the kerf from the beginning.

Jake, I will wage a friendly bet that you will find the sawing-uphill method I outlined will start a kerf more easily and cleanly than the backing-up-a-saw method.

Now, have you tried mine? Make sure it's an old saw though!

What was that again, John? Use a sledge hammer .. :p
You can't scare me ... :lol:

Actually I have done that, and sometime do do that. Many years ago I saw Tage Frid do that on a video (he used a piece of bandsaw). I made a special knife (looks like a chisel) out of a steel trowel just for that purpose. Really.

If you do do this (on half-blind dovetails, of course), make sure that you add a clamp (OK, cramp) to prevent the side blowing out.

Here's the knife ..

Dovetailkerfer.jpg


Here's it being used ...

HBDovetailchisel.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Oh I don't 'it it all that hard! . Just enough to do the job...

But it does make the chiselling out easier.

All this talk of dovetailing and tools makes me want to try something I have been thinking on for years.. Cutting 'proud' dovetails. (Arts 'n Crafts style.)

Maybe when I can actually get into the shop again, I will try a small box!



John :)
 
studders":1vfd7ydz said:
mr grimsdale":1vfd7ydz said:
My chisels and planes are very sharp though, even if my method is ridiculous and a bit too speedy for the plodding, painstaking, jig fiddlers!

I never said your method was ridiculous. You just don't seem to get it though Mr Grim, some people, me included, actually enjoy the sharpening process as much as the rest of hobby woodworking. So if that means being a 'plodding jig fiddler' then so be it.
So, when you stop taking the piss out of my methods I'll stop taking the piss out of yours. I think that's fair.
Not bothered either way - feel free to carry on taking the piss!
I don't think I raised the subject in this thread; several other people did, correct me if I'm wrong.

PS just checked - no I didn't mention or take he piss out of anybodies chisel sharpening anywhere in this thread - until I came up (defensively) with "plodding jig fiddlers". Which I'm quite pleased with; says it in a nutshell! :lol: :lol:
 
Going back to the original question,

Having seen a couple of lads from Rycotewood cutting dovetails yesterday, they were making a very good job with a couple of old Marples chisels, an ordinary looking dovetail saw & an old looking coping saw.

I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.
 
Doug B":3szjo9gw said:
I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.

It is, but at the risk of repeating arguments already held in this thread, quality tools (new or old) can give quicker access to success in my opinion.

Ed
 
Doug B":vmp5akmu said:
....
Having seen a couple of lads from Rycotewood cutting dovetails yesterday, they were making a very good job with a couple of old Marples chisels, an ordinary looking dovetail saw & an old looking coping saw.....
Oh mi gawd surely that's impossible! And in public too, setting a terrible example! I bet they had some proper tools hidden away somewhere!

Actually - the only remarkable thing about it is that it should be thought worth remarking upon.
Reading some of the comments in this thread, and looking at toolyism in general, a lot of people have been thoroughly brainwashed about tools and have become detached from reality.

PS
...
I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.
Spot on. Couldn't agree more!
 
Doug B":6jxb46qh said:
Going back to the original question,

Having seen a couple of lads from Rycotewood cutting dovetails yesterday, they were making a very good job with a couple of old Marples chisels, an ordinary looking dovetail saw & an old looking coping saw.

I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.

Doug,

That has to be one of the best posts I've seen for a long time, but you do know that people have been banned from this forum for making these sorts of observations / suggestions! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Steve
 
Doug B":1y8noyvx said:
Going back to the original question,

Having seen a couple of lads from Rycotewood cutting dovetails yesterday, they were making a very good job with a couple of old Marples chisels, an ordinary looking dovetail saw & an old looking coping saw.

I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.

Doug, you got it in one. These dovetailing threads are always fascinating to watch. Dovetails aren't the easiest joints to get right first time, but they're also not an especially difficult joint to execute well. The most important characteristics are an ability to mark accurately followed sawing and chiselling accurately to those marks using sharp tools. The techniques involved require practice, quite a bit of it really, because there are several tasks, each of which have to be well executed, before a worker can achieve consistent accuracy and speed.

The ability to mark accurately is important, and so is the ability to sharpen a variety of tools from planes to chisels to saws. Add to that the need to be able to use the tools accurately and it soon becomes obvious why some people struggle.

I don't use particularly fancy tools to do the job; the fanciest is probably my Independence brand dovetail saw with a rip tooth pattern, but I can use just about any saw with a back on it within reason, even a dull and poorly looked after thing with cross cut pattern teeth; it has to be admitted that a skanky saw does make life frustrating and harder, but not impossible.

The rest of the kit I use is very ordinary including standard try squares and adjustable square ro mark mitres if required; cutting gauges, marking gauges, rules, (a bevel gauge or dovetail gauge too if I'm going to mark a specified rake) a bird's beak knife and a 0.5 mechanical pencil. Other bits of kit include Stanley brand chisels and a no-name coping saw along with a bench stone which happens to be a ceramic stone, saw files and a saw set.

That's about it, unless I've forgotten something. Simple kit, and those bits of kit that need to be sharp are sharp. The rest of the job is down to accuracy of execution and that requires practice, lots of it until it all becomes second nature and you can almost do it your sleep. Slainte.
 
Mike Garnham":1ws164ew said:
Sgian Dubh

Completely with you on every word you just wrote.

Is there any controversy?

Mike

Yes Mike, there always seems to be in these dovetailing threads, but I don't believe any of those controversies are of my making.

When I see threads like this I mostly just sit back and watch them develop into whatever they become. It's often interesting, even if it's only for the anality (is that a word?) that sometimes emerges, ha, ha. Slainte.
 
There's an old song, from a B&W movie...
'To Each His Own'....

(Might even be they got the title from Shakespeare, but then I don't bother with Shakespeare all that much. Mostly drivel, on which much modern drivel is based!)

(To Each His Own) But after posting such 'blasphemy' I still don my tin-hat!

John :D
 
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