Tools for Dovetails

[mr grimsdale]

only for the anality (is that a word?)

If it isn't, it should be!

Mike

Hey we haven't got on to bevels yet!
I'm of the 1/5 (approx) persuasion myself, but freehand, so somewhat random. I like to see pin ends as a confident triangle, not a mimsy trapezoid!

 

[Benchwayze]

Mimsy? Haven't heard that one before Jacob.
I met loads a guys from Ooop North too.

Does it mean kinda wimpy?
Most of my early joints finished in the miskin. :wink:


Cheers

John

 

[woodbloke]

I still don my tin-hat!

John

...and flack jacket John :wink: - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

I still don my tin-hat!

John

...and flack jacket John :wink: - Rob

I shall suffer the slings and arrows then!
:wink:

 

[JeremyM]

Replying to Alex8-en, if your pins are consistent but too tight then you need to move the tail board away from the pin board a fraction when marking out. ie more light peaking through the back edge. If it doesnt matter what the final width of the pin board is plane a few shavings off the inside face of the pin board. You will find this much easier than adjusting pin width with a chisel, but this will only work if all pins are oversize.

Jeremy

 

[bugbear]

Going back to the original question,

Having seen a couple of lads from Rycotewood cutting dovetails yesterday, they were making a very good job with a couple of old Marples chisels, an ordinary looking dovetail saw & an old looking coping saw.

I think the most important thing is sharp tools & then practice.

Take a look at Kirby's dovetail book. Classic "technical college" tools throughout.

Mind you, he's also written an entire book on sharpening, so his (modern Marples, IIRC) chisels are better tuned than most mortals'.

BugBear

 

[mr grimsdale]

.....

does the Veritas wheel gauge for £28 do any better job that the Lie Nielsen version which is £70.

Do either of them do any better than the old pattern? I don't think so - and I have used a selection over the years.

Oops I hope I haven't induced anybody to lash out loads of dosh (£5.93) on a Draper marking gauge, Marples are cheaper at Tilgear!
As I keep saying; excellent and surprisingly cheap tools are still being made in Sheffield.
Hardly worth looking on ebay at those prices. However I just bought this nice cutting gauge for £2.50, partly because I like the old wood screws. No brand but it must be superior quality as it says "Superior Quality" on the transfer.

 

[Benchwayze]

There are some nice Marples chisel sets at 'OldTools'. But they are almost as pricey as LN's and in a few years will be catching up on Blue Spruce...

I think someone had better get in quick...


John

 

[bugbear]

Hardly worth looking on ebay at those prices. However I just bought this nice cutting gauge for £2.50, partly because I like the old wood screws.

Yes - there's something deeply satisfying and enjoyable about handling those finely made boxwood threads. Lovely things.

BugBear

 

[Richard T]

Has any one seen the dvd "Dovetail a Drawer with Frank Klausz"? I found a low quality fragment of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-o4jryTkUc but this does nothing to convey the sheer mastery of this guy.
He doesn't use a fret saw at all - he knocks all the waste out with chisels. He doesn't even use a square (fer 9*$%'s sake) he does that by eye.
I guess using chisles exclusivly limits the pattern - his are very uniform pins and tails, but good grief, I wish I could do it like that.
He takes you through every process involved in making a drawer slowly, and then at his speed (s'nuff t' make yer sick.)
I hugely reccomend seeing this dvd - it's the most amazing how-to I've ever seen; good planing and jig advice too.
(gushing sales pitch over)

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Richard,

If you can still view VHS Video, I have one of 'Dovetail a Drawer' which you are welcome to.


Postage and a pint is all I ask.

John

 

[Richard T]

Thanks John but I have a copy already - I just don't have the skill, or the scary Hungarian father ...

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks John but I just don't have the skill.

Yes you do Richard.

'Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you will be right.'

Henry Ford.
:wink:

Regards and keep practicing.

John

 

[Richard T]

Thanks for the encouragement John, truth is I haven't tried it yet. I've got as far as unearthing an old (English) dovetail saw and overhauling it.
I've sharpened it to full rip angles. I've had it appart, cleaned it, oiled it and put it back together. Unforunately the back is just too pitted to read the maker's name - but the blade is unscathed by rust.
I also have one deeply cut away chisel (Ward). And as soon as this bl@ody ankle heals and it stops snowing for five minutes I will have a go.
But to start with at least, I will be using a square.

 

[mr grimsdale]

Thanks for the encouragement John, truth is I haven't tried it yet. I've got as far as unearthing an old (English) dovetail saw and overhauling it.
I've sharpened it to full rip angles. I've had it appart, cleaned it, oiled it and put it back together. ...

I've done the same recently - and I've also discovered how to re-tension the blade resulting in instant improvement in blade straightness on an old Tyzack 12" tenon and an old S&J 8" DT, as follows:

The blade in a trad backsaw is a dry fit in the folded brass back. To tighten it you hold the end 2" of the blade in a wood faced vice and give the back immediately above, a sharp tap or two with a hammer. Don't over do it. You can do it at both ends.
You are effectively tucking the blade further into the back, at the ends, so pulling it tighter along the edge. A bit like pulling a sheet straight on a bed.
Only takes a few seconds for a dramatic improvement in a wavy blade.

I guess you can't do this with the various new 'innovative' saws - yet another good reason for not buying one!

 

[Benchwayze]

Well Richard you made a good start.

I am reorganising my workshop at the moment. It's in a sorry state.

You can't live too far from me, so as soon as I have a presentable space, you are welcome to come over, and I'll see what I can unearth in the way of unused and 'no longer required' tools.

I can't promise to be able to teach you much, but any knowledge I do have to pass on will be gladly imparted.

All the best

John

 

[bugbear]

Thanks for the encouragement John, truth is I haven't tried it yet. I've got as far as unearthing an old (English) dovetail saw and overhauling it.
I've sharpened it to full rip angles. I've had it appart, cleaned it, oiled it and put it back together. ...

I've done the same recently - and I've also discovered how to re-tension the blade resulting in instant improvement in blade straightness on an old Tyzack 12" tenon and an old S&J 8" DT, as follows:

The blade in a trad backsaw is a dry fit in the folded brass back. To tighten it you hold the end 2" of the blade in a wood faced vice and give the back immediately above, a sharp tap or two with a hammer. Don't over do it. You can do it at both ends.
You are effectively tucking the blade further into the back, at the ends, so pulling it tighter along the edge. A bit like pulling a sheet straight on a bed.
Only takes a few seconds for a dramatic improvement in a wavy blade.

Presumably the blade is only wavy because it's come out of it proper position in the back, and your hammering is putting it back.

This is not (BTW) what is normally termed tensioning a saw, which is a craft jargon phrase with a specific meaning.

BugBear

 

[Richard T]

mr grimsdale wrote: The blade in a trad backsaw is a dry fit in the folded brass back. To tighten it you hold the end 2" of the blade in a wood faced vice and give the back immediately above, a sharp tap or two with a hammer. Don't over do it. You can do it at both ends.
You are effectively tucking the blade further into the back, at the ends, so pulling it tighter along the edge. A bit like pulling a sheet straight on a bed.
Only takes a few seconds for a dramatic improvement in a wavy blade.


What an excellent tip for those of us (esp.me) who go footling about at car boot sales trying to find that rare, old, straight saw. I might think twice about letting a slightly wavey one go now.

John, I'm in Olton - not too far from Brum. I'd love to see your set-up but I can do no more than hobble for the forseeable.