Thieving little twats

[wobblycogs]

When I was a lad a few years ago my best friends dad got sent down for 18 months for aggravated assualt. The storys he had when he came out were unbelievable. He reckoned he spent most of his year and bit behind bars either drunk or high. In fact the only negative thing he could think of was that there were no women.

I think Lons hit on an important point, justice needs to be made swifter. There is such a delay between commiting the crime and any punishment that these people can't learn that what they are doing is wrong.

Imagine trying to train a child the way the state does. The kid steals the toast off your plate at breakfast and you shout at it at lunch time. It just wouldn't work because there is no cause and effect corrolation.

 

[Jake]

and the reason they do this more now than they did in previous generations is because they dont fear the consequences of getting caught.

From what I remember of my brief study of criminology, one of the problems with criminals is that they are crap at thinking about consequences. That's one of the problems of trying to stop them, and why career criminals are in and out of prison all their lives. You can make the consequences as bad as you like (chopping bits off, even terminating life) and it doesn't stop criminals committing crimes - ask a yank.

 

[big soft moose]

and the reason they do this more now than they did in previous generations is because they dont fear the consequences of getting caught.

From what I remember of my brief study of criminology, one of the problems with criminals is that they are crap at thinking about consequences. That's one of the problems of trying to stop them, and why career criminals are in and out of prison all their lives. You can make the consequences as bad as you like (chopping bits off, even terminating life) and it doesn't stop criminals committing crimes - ask a yank.

it might not stop career criminals from commiting crimes which is why 3 strikes doesnt work , but it imo effective punishment does have a deterent effect on those who have not yet turned to crime

plus if you lock up the thieves for a long stretch and shoot the murderers and pederasts, and rapists between the eyes it sure has hell stops them from doing it again.

 

[studders]

Is the point of 'Punishment' not so much to do with reformation of those who break rules but, more to do with satisfying the desire for revenge, in a legal form, for those against whom the crime was committed?
If so, then surely the deterrent factor doesn't really come into the argument?

 

[big soft moose]

Is the point of 'Punishment' not so much to do with reformation of those who break rules but, more to do with satisfying the desire for revenge, in a legal form, for those against whom the crime was committed?
If so, then surely the deterrent factor doesn't really come into the argument?

personally i'd say not - i'm not interested in revenge, just in the safety of the law abiding majority in society

now i'm sure some will say the recedivism is higher where there is no rehabilitation and in some cases i'd agree that thats true - but it is also true that if the theiving little twats are locked up they cant reoffend because they are behind bars !

and of course the argument against that is often that we dont have the prison space - but you could maske this space by putting all the copnvicted rapists, kiddy fidlers, and murderers against the wall and administering some 9mm "rehabilitation"

 

[Jake]

Is the point of 'Punishment' not so much to do with reformation of those who break rules but, more to do with satisfying the desire for revenge, in a legal form, for those against whom the crime was committed?
If so, then surely the deterrent factor doesn't really come into the argument?

There are various justifications for/purposes of criminal sentences - retribution (your one), deterrence, incapacitation (if they are dead they can't commit more crimes), rehabilitation, and restoration (victim compensation). They are all in play to some degree.

 

[Jake]

and of course the argument against that is often that we dont have the prison space - but you could maske this space by putting all the copnvicted rapists, kiddy fidlers, and murderers against the wall and administering some 9mm "rehabilitation"

I'm sure if you moved to the right islamic regime, you'd fit in well. Afghanistan might be a hot at the mo - try Somalia perhaps?

 

[big soft moose]

and of course the argument against that is often that we dont have the prison space - but you could maske this space by putting all the copnvicted rapists, kiddy fidlers, and murderers against the wall and administering some 9mm "rehabilitation"

I'm sure if you moved to the right islamic regime, you'd fit in well. Afghanistan might be a hot at the mo - try Somalia perhaps?

You could be right - all though i'm agnostic i have a lot of respect for the teachings of islam - tho not as practiced by the lunatic extremist.

If i had the opportunity i would happily move to somewhere like abu dhabi or brunei

 

[studders]

OK thanks chaps.

Until it happens to me I don't really know what I'd want. Depends on what 'it' is I suppose?

 

[TheTiddles]

I like the comment about people being stigmatised by having been to prison, what like they're criminals or something!

The reason dishonest people are unlikely to be employed is because they're dishonest, only an ***** would employ one unless they've got an exemplary record to back them up, like 5 years of consistent work.

Anyway, back to workshops, has anyone had a modern garage door broken in to, one with locks in the corners etc...?

Aidan

 

[jimi43]

Yes...I think we can go on for ages about the rights and wrong of society...

I am with Aidan...

Let's have a round of ideas that DO work...what things do really stop the oiks in their tracks....?

Jim

 

[RogerS]

.. even terminating life and it doesn't stop criminals committing crimes ....

I think that will work. Works for me.

 

[Jake]

only an ***** would employ one unless they've got an exemplary record to back them up, like 5 years of consistent work.

A true enough observation, but also one which Yossarian would understand well.

 

[Jake]

.... even terminating life and it doesn't stop criminals committing crimes ....

I think that will work. Works for me.

Speeding?

 

[big soft moose]

.... even terminating life and it doesn't stop criminals committing crimes ....

I think that will work. Works for me.

Speeding?

well i woulnt actually advocate it , but if there was a death penalty for speeding i bet people would drive a lot more carefully.

 

[big soft moose]

Anyway, back to workshops, has anyone had a modern garage door broken in to, one with locks in the corners etc...?

Aidan

we had about 4ks worth of contact type mowers etc nicked from a lock up garage a few years back - little scrotes rammed the door in with a stolen ford escort

the decent defence against that is a couple of fixed I beam bollards outside the door (which is fine so long as you dont want to get a vehicle in yourself - if you do there are lock down bollards but they suffer from cropablity)

course if you were feeling vindictive you could put the bollards inside the door so they only discovered them after they'd rammed it - trouble is these days they could probably sue...

 

[Jake]

I refer you to earlier posts, most probably wouldn't. They would spend more on knowing where cameras are, and their relatives would complain vociferously when they were shot by the roadside by traffic police.

 

[big soft moose]

I refer you to earlier posts, most probably wouldn't. They would spend more on knowing where cameras are, and their relatives would complain vociferously when they were shot by the roadside by traffic police.

and i refer you to earlier posts - having been shot they wouldnt do it again !

course i dont actually advocate that for speeding or even for turning over workshops - but i cant see a problem with it as a penalty for murder, ****, pedrasty etc

 

[Jake]

Personally, I'd have very little difficulty with a policy of exterminating right wing people because they offend my sense of liberal pompous righteousness.

 

[big soft moose]

Personally, I'd have very little difficulty with a policy of exterminating right wing people because they offend my sense of liberal pompous righteousness.

but think of all the business you'd be doing yourself out of - with only liberals left in society they'd be far more likely to have a group hug and seek counselling to talk about their disagreements than to resort to litigation.

plus with criminals no longer being punished but instead invited to a focus group/dioversity workshop to esplain why they are nasty little bar stewards there'd be no criminal defence work either