devonwoody
Established Member
Bob, the easiest way in then is through the roof. 
Thieving little twats
- Thread starter Dibs-h
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9fingers
Established Member
You are possibly correct DW but it is all relative.
Imitation slates and OSB, Insulation and a MDF ceiling in the way on that route.
Bob
Imitation slates and OSB, Insulation and a MDF ceiling in the way on that route.
Bob
Dibs-h
Established Member
The plan is to have a ply\osb ceiling on mine as well - coming thru a rosemary clay roof, laths, kingspan and then hitting ply, should be enough to deter most.
I'm on with the door frame - would appreciate any input on it's planned reinforcement.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/exte ... 39546.html
I'm on with the door frame - would appreciate any input on it's planned reinforcement.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/exte ... 39546.html
xy mosian
Established Member
That nearby school doesn't have a Vaulting Horse does it?
xy
xy
big soft moose
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Dibs-h":3j6jlzkp said:
the door is always going to be the weak point in your defences as it has to be openable - in my opinion the key is multipoint locking top and bottom with mortices so there is nothing to crop, metal sheilding on the door to stop them cutting round the locks, hinges protected or on the inside so they cant be cut and the door opening outwards so it cant be kicked or sledge hammered in. (the downside being that your 'shop now resembles a crack den)
if you have windows they need to be barred, and preferably shuttered with locking shutters as per the door
add to that a sonic blaster alarm , and a smoke sheild and you are as secure as you are going to get (short of moats and minefields
)that said you'll never keep someone out if they really want to get in, all you can do is make it dificult enough that they go elsewhere - plus if you do get done high security will make it easier to convince the loss adjuster that you took reasonable precautions
devonwoody
Established Member
xy mosian":j4tlzqvm said:That nearby school doesn't have a Vaulting Horse does it?
xy
Perhaps they have been listening to their history lessons, and recalled the trojan horse. :wink:
Bluekingfisher
Established Member
I have read some good and bad advice on this thread, as a crime prevention officer I have seen many garden shed/garage/workshop breakins. I don't wish to be an alarmist but once a shed, or house to that matter has been burgled the victim is something like 8 times more likely to become a victim again if retrospective maesures are not undertaken, the burglar knows how to get in, what security you have and what you have worth nicking. Usually after about six weeks, time enough for your insurance to have paid out and the tools are replaced. They might be thick but not dumb and they are good at what they do...it's their job
Most thieves are after the easy option, they will always look for the point of the garden most easily compromised, they are not after a challenge. If you have a blind spot (lacks surveillance from the house or adjacent buildings) or the boundary line is easily negotiated then start at these points first, work from the outside in, creating several layers of security. Be careful as an agent of the property you will be responsible for any little darling who stumbles into your lion pit or machine gun nest. It would seem common sense to everyone that if you trespass on someones property you would expect to be caught or punished, no so a court of laws way of thinking. The excuse of "sorry your worships, I knew it was someones garden but my ball went over the fence and when I went to retrieve it the land mine blew my foot off" sound ridiculous, of course it does but he would walk away (no pun) scott free while you would have to mortgage your house to pay his compensation. You can of course take reasonable steps. The point of what is reasonable is the issue which will be debated. For example if you put some 'defensible topping on a 8' fence with a sign stating, caution, this fence is protected, this may be reasonable, but having the inside of the fence wired to your electric supply would not be, sorry to state the obvious but these methods have actually been used.
Time is the burglars enemy if you can slow him down or make him think how he is going to get out he will think twice. So don't leave your dustbin or compost bin against the inside of the fence, it becomes a useful limbing aid for getting back out. Appropriate lighting is an excellent "security" deterrent. Avoid at all cost PIR lighting. It can create the fear of crime and will only come on when someone is in your garden....too late, he has already made his mind up to come in. Instead use photo cell lighting, comes on when it get dark, off when it gets light. It doesn't need to be bright, but put enough lamps in to cover vulnerable areas, including the perimeter of the workshop. Try to avoid the lamps from creating pools or pockets of shadow. The new 7 Watt long life bulbs burn about 1 penny of electric a day, well worth it I think.
Target hardening a workshop can be difficult, particularly if it is remote, again time and noise is the enemy of the burglar so anything to slow him down will work. I must admit I have never heard of suspects coming through a roof in a domestic garden workshop although several remote farm buildings have suffered from this although I do recommend internal cladding should they decide to come in via the siding. Alarms are also useful, although someone on here stated that no takes notice of an alarm, I don't know of any instances where a burglar has hung around waiting for someone to take notice of it. A shrill alarm will send them running and give you some indication that you are under attack. I have a little panic alarm attached to the door of the workshop attached to a loop and a hook which pulls the cord out if the door is opened. i've set if off a couple of times myself and still makes me jump out of my skin.
Property marking your tools will also help (your postcode followed by your house number will also help dissuade burglars from nicking them, makes then harder to sell on and handlers don't want to be caught with them, kind of difficult to explain to plod why you are holding property belonging to someone with their postcode on it.
Most thieves are after the easy option, they will always look for the point of the garden most easily compromised, they are not after a challenge. If you have a blind spot (lacks surveillance from the house or adjacent buildings) or the boundary line is easily negotiated then start at these points first, work from the outside in, creating several layers of security. Be careful as an agent of the property you will be responsible for any little darling who stumbles into your lion pit or machine gun nest. It would seem common sense to everyone that if you trespass on someones property you would expect to be caught or punished, no so a court of laws way of thinking. The excuse of "sorry your worships, I knew it was someones garden but my ball went over the fence and when I went to retrieve it the land mine blew my foot off" sound ridiculous, of course it does but he would walk away (no pun) scott free while you would have to mortgage your house to pay his compensation. You can of course take reasonable steps. The point of what is reasonable is the issue which will be debated. For example if you put some 'defensible topping on a 8' fence with a sign stating, caution, this fence is protected, this may be reasonable, but having the inside of the fence wired to your electric supply would not be, sorry to state the obvious but these methods have actually been used.
Time is the burglars enemy if you can slow him down or make him think how he is going to get out he will think twice. So don't leave your dustbin or compost bin against the inside of the fence, it becomes a useful limbing aid for getting back out. Appropriate lighting is an excellent "security" deterrent. Avoid at all cost PIR lighting. It can create the fear of crime and will only come on when someone is in your garden....too late, he has already made his mind up to come in. Instead use photo cell lighting, comes on when it get dark, off when it gets light. It doesn't need to be bright, but put enough lamps in to cover vulnerable areas, including the perimeter of the workshop. Try to avoid the lamps from creating pools or pockets of shadow. The new 7 Watt long life bulbs burn about 1 penny of electric a day, well worth it I think.
Target hardening a workshop can be difficult, particularly if it is remote, again time and noise is the enemy of the burglar so anything to slow him down will work. I must admit I have never heard of suspects coming through a roof in a domestic garden workshop although several remote farm buildings have suffered from this although I do recommend internal cladding should they decide to come in via the siding. Alarms are also useful, although someone on here stated that no takes notice of an alarm, I don't know of any instances where a burglar has hung around waiting for someone to take notice of it. A shrill alarm will send them running and give you some indication that you are under attack. I have a little panic alarm attached to the door of the workshop attached to a loop and a hook which pulls the cord out if the door is opened. i've set if off a couple of times myself and still makes me jump out of my skin.
Property marking your tools will also help (your postcode followed by your house number will also help dissuade burglars from nicking them, makes then harder to sell on and handlers don't want to be caught with them, kind of difficult to explain to plod why you are holding property belonging to someone with their postcode on it.
jorgoz
Established Member
Sorry to hear about the unpleasant event, lack of respect these days.
But i think this is what happens when a materialistic society is created. As a society we are responsible for our own fows. Throwing a bone in the doghouse.... And punishin them to death doesn't resolve anything. Look at the US, the country with the most death penalties but also the highest crime rates.
I always wonder why some people get burgled multiple times. You start to wonder. What happens behind the scenes, i mean the not visible side of things. I'm not saying they ask for it, but i believe there is more to what the eye meets.
A problem with most dogs is they make such a racket in the neighborhood and if one barks down the road, the rest pitches in, nice :roll:
But i think this is what happens when a materialistic society is created. As a society we are responsible for our own fows. Throwing a bone in the doghouse.... And punishin them to death doesn't resolve anything. Look at the US, the country with the most death penalties but also the highest crime rates.
I always wonder why some people get burgled multiple times. You start to wonder. What happens behind the scenes, i mean the not visible side of things. I'm not saying they ask for it, but i believe there is more to what the eye meets.
A problem with most dogs is they make such a racket in the neighborhood and if one barks down the road, the rest pitches in, nice :roll:
BMac
Established Member
Bluekingfisher,
This panic alarm - is that the sort of thing a lady might carry in her bag or pocket? I am very interested in this for my own workshop because I live in a rural area where sound travels well at night.
Brendan
This panic alarm - is that the sort of thing a lady might carry in her bag or pocket? I am very interested in this for my own workshop because I live in a rural area where sound travels well at night.
Brendan
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
My Neighbour was done over at 2 month intervals 4 times!
They finally got the scrote & he admitted 4000 offences!
Something no one has mentioned - they need a market for this stuff. Someone must be buying it -is it you???.
I saw at a boot sale a bloke selling about 20 lawnmowers - now ask yourself where they came from. He had other interesting stuff on his stall but I walked straight past.
Maybe our resident legal eagle can add some advice but I believe you can use whatever preventive measures you like but you must not "set traps".
Obvious barbed wire & spikes are OK. I have carpet gripper along the tops of my fences - legal or not I don't give a monkeys
They finally got the scrote & he admitted 4000 offences!
Something no one has mentioned - they need a market for this stuff. Someone must be buying it -is it you???.
I saw at a boot sale a bloke selling about 20 lawnmowers - now ask yourself where they came from. He had other interesting stuff on his stall but I walked straight past.
Maybe our resident legal eagle can add some advice but I believe you can use whatever preventive measures you like but you must not "set traps".
Obvious barbed wire & spikes are OK. I have carpet gripper along the tops of my fences - legal or not I don't give a monkeys
jimi43
Established Member
Bootfairs do get a bad press for obvious reasons and your comment about 20 lawnmowers is valid but probably worth asking the guy. There is an old chap at one of our local fairs who has the skills to fix lawnmowers and he trolls clearance, auctions and freecycle for unwanted mowers to restore and supplement his pension.
So it is probably wrong to generalise. You also get some really dubious characters...you know the type...unwashed...flatbed truck...mother on the passenger seat...father and son...
I asked around and they run a bone-fide house clearance business...very successfully.
With the amount of police and trading standards officers around our bootfairs I think that most criminals would think twice at selling there but this is not the same for every location.
I have a feeling that these stolen items get moved about within the criminal fraternity where they can trust the fences....
On the subject of those cheap panic alarms...they are superb. The battery lasts for absolutely ages and I had just the same setup...clamp the alarm to the door...put the cord around a hook inside so you can get your hand in and unhook it...and you do forget sometimes...it does make you jump in the daylight even when you know it's there so Lord knows what it would do to a thief!
Jim
So it is probably wrong to generalise. You also get some really dubious characters...you know the type...unwashed...flatbed truck...mother on the passenger seat...father and son...
I asked around and they run a bone-fide house clearance business...very successfully.
With the amount of police and trading standards officers around our bootfairs I think that most criminals would think twice at selling there but this is not the same for every location.
I have a feeling that these stolen items get moved about within the criminal fraternity where they can trust the fences....
On the subject of those cheap panic alarms...they are superb. The battery lasts for absolutely ages and I had just the same setup...clamp the alarm to the door...put the cord around a hook inside so you can get your hand in and unhook it...and you do forget sometimes...it does make you jump in the daylight even when you know it's there so Lord knows what it would do to a thief!
Jim
BMac
Established Member
Thanks Jake,
I had started watching for likely candidates among our village geriatrics but there was a tiny flaw in my plan...they all know me. So, I think I'll go legitimate for this one.
Brendan
I had started watching for likely candidates among our village geriatrics but there was a tiny flaw in my plan...they all know me. So, I think I'll go legitimate for this one.
Brendan
studders
Established Member
jimi43":jpomaewn said:
:shock:
Or did you mean trawls?
:lol:
Bluekingfisher
Established Member
Bmac,
Thats the very ones, I did have a large box of them but handed them out to "needy" owners of sheds while on my rounds. They are only a couple of quid each. Some are much louder than others. If I can find the receipts for the orders I will let you know which model to look for.
Lurker, your carpet gripper is no doubt an effective means of protecting a boundary fence but could lead to civil action if some one was to come to harm, never heard of such actions but you are a big boy and can make those decisions for yourself. For the more cautious, there is a product which mimics the carpet gripper but won't lead to civil actions.
It's a plastic strip with pyramid type peaks which can be nailed to the top of the fence. In my opinion though may only provide minimal protection. A coat thrown over the top of the fence will provide enough protection to allow the intruder to climb over.
Barbed wire or razor wire may require planning permission, particularly if the boundary fence/wall abuts a public highway. It won't look very nice either and the wall will need to be higher than a tall man on stilts (should he inadvertently get caught up on it when walking past). I think 2.4m is the minimum height. A better option of protecting a boundary fence would be to use some form of anti climb paint, although this will require maintainance as it will through time dry out. Some have used grease and engine oil for the same purpose, as long as you highlight that such treatments are being employed you have taken reasonable steps to show warning.
If you have concerns re garden security contact your local cops and ask for the CPO to attend and provide you with some free but for the price of a cup of tea security advice. He or she will point out any obvious deficiencies in your "security" and how to go about addressing them.
One final thing, unless the burglars have knowledge of what you have in your workshop/shed most crimes are opportunist and you have be singled out because your premises is in some vulnerable, you have to try and look at it from their perspective and why have they singled you out? Take a look at your neighbours gardens, how easy could you get into them compared to your own, that's the way burglar Bill thinks. If he has to think about getting in and how to get out he'll probably look else where. So before you spend time and money making your workshop a bunker think about the bigger picture.
Thats the very ones, I did have a large box of them but handed them out to "needy" owners of sheds while on my rounds. They are only a couple of quid each. Some are much louder than others. If I can find the receipts for the orders I will let you know which model to look for.
Lurker, your carpet gripper is no doubt an effective means of protecting a boundary fence but could lead to civil action if some one was to come to harm, never heard of such actions but you are a big boy and can make those decisions for yourself. For the more cautious, there is a product which mimics the carpet gripper but won't lead to civil actions.
It's a plastic strip with pyramid type peaks which can be nailed to the top of the fence. In my opinion though may only provide minimal protection. A coat thrown over the top of the fence will provide enough protection to allow the intruder to climb over.
Barbed wire or razor wire may require planning permission, particularly if the boundary fence/wall abuts a public highway. It won't look very nice either and the wall will need to be higher than a tall man on stilts (should he inadvertently get caught up on it when walking past). I think 2.4m is the minimum height. A better option of protecting a boundary fence would be to use some form of anti climb paint, although this will require maintainance as it will through time dry out. Some have used grease and engine oil for the same purpose, as long as you highlight that such treatments are being employed you have taken reasonable steps to show warning.
If you have concerns re garden security contact your local cops and ask for the CPO to attend and provide you with some free but for the price of a cup of tea security advice. He or she will point out any obvious deficiencies in your "security" and how to go about addressing them.
One final thing, unless the burglars have knowledge of what you have in your workshop/shed most crimes are opportunist and you have be singled out because your premises is in some vulnerable, you have to try and look at it from their perspective and why have they singled you out? Take a look at your neighbours gardens, how easy could you get into them compared to your own, that's the way burglar Bill thinks. If he has to think about getting in and how to get out he'll probably look else where. So before you spend time and money making your workshop a bunker think about the bigger picture.
BMac
Established Member
Thank you Bluekingfisher, I would appreciate that but don't cause yourself any inconvenience if the information isn't easily available.
Brendan
Brendan
Bluekingfisher
Established Member
No worries mate, I might even have a used demo model lol lying around in the dusty archives somewhere. Got the outlaws down this weekend so I won't get much free time, so ping me a message next week to remind me.
Enjoy your weekend, I know I won't.
David
Enjoy your weekend, I know I won't.
David
Lons
Established Member
You can't win.
A few years ago, my neighbour was burgled and it seems they came back 2 weeks later (common practice) to steal the replacements claimed on insurance.
I saw the in my garden, 3 BIG youths and chased them across the padock which is my land where they escaped in a car.
i gave the reg to the law which enabled them to catch the little b******* but then for my troubles, got an official dressing down for chasing them.
I had grabbed a hammer on my way out for protection, big lads remember and even though on my property, had I caught them it appears I would have been done for threatening behaviour with a weapon. I was furious!!!!!!!
A few years ago, my neighbour was burgled and it seems they came back 2 weeks later (common practice) to steal the replacements claimed on insurance.
I saw the in my garden, 3 BIG youths and chased them across the padock which is my land where they escaped in a car.
i gave the reg to the law which enabled them to catch the little b******* but then for my troubles, got an official dressing down for chasing them.
I had grabbed a hammer on my way out for protection, big lads remember and even though on my property, had I caught them it appears I would have been done for threatening behaviour with a weapon. I was furious!!!!!!!
