The language is mutating (and always has done)

[Scruples]

Table saw, dado, sled, lumber ...

Gotten ...

We seem to be going transatlantic. Doesn't have to be bad, of course, but at the same time can seem like a form of cultural imperialism. What passes the other way? I'm in favour of dialogue, but resistant to unidirectionalism.

There's a mechanism of cultural transmission at work by which such terms become ever more widely adopted and even the norm. I don't feel the need to jump onboard, but it also seems that it's an unstoppable bandwagon.

It makes my moustache bristle. Yes, I said bristle, not brittle.

And I blame the internet. But I don't suppose that anybody else has noticed, because I've never seen it mentioned ...

You have to remember what language became dominant in the US. Webster wanted to simplify the language and so set about standardising the spelling across the pond. Hence they have color, flavor, humor and like to Z where we moved away from them in words like organize/organise. Most books use the American spellings, as do applications like Windows and Apple. We have always adopted new words from many languages. Sometimes they stick and some fade away as short-term fancies.
I'll use real English spelling but always understand the need to dumb it down for our friends across the pond. They can keep their 2x 4s, I'll carry on with 4x2s.

 

[Adam W.]

@Pineapple

Dado comes from an Italian word "to dice" and probably gets used in USAnia more than it does here. Wainscot comes from the Dutch or low Saxon word wandschote for wall panelling or wall protection, and is not necessarily for just the lower half of the wall.

 

[hlvd]

Table saw, dado, sled, lumber ...

Gotten ...

We seem to be going transatlantic. Doesn't have to be bad, of course, but at the same time can seem like a form of cultural imperialism. What passes the other way? I'm in favour of dialogue, but resistant to unidirectionalism.

There's a mechanism of cultural transmission at work by which such terms become ever more widely adopted and even the norm. I don't feel the need to jump onboard, but it also seems that it's an unstoppable bandwagon.

It makes my moustache bristle. Yes, I said bristle, not brittle.

And I blame the internet. But I don't suppose that anybody else has noticed, because I've never seen it mentioned ...

Whilst I agree, I suspect the correct terms are still used and taught in the trade, with the American terms probably used on the hobby side of things.

 

[Johnwa]

Just to put my pet irritation into the pot. Why do people start a sentence with "so"? It gets on my wick

 

[HamsterJam]

A load of pimps and *******.

Not sure about the pimps but ******* are great with gravy, chips and mushy peas

 

[Rodpr]

One thing that we can rely on never changing is people's irritation when things change. The French set up an institute to try to protect their language against the influx of foreign words but they were about as successful as king Cnut. Changes only stick if enough people adopt them and the ebb and flow adds to the richness of the language. Many words have deep roots and fascinating back stories for those who are interested.

 

[HamsterJam]

Would agree that -ise and -ize is not a good example to illustrate the difference, Since it seems that- ize was the form favoured by Oxford English Dictionary and by Webster's. We have deviated over the years and now -ise is more common but -ize is still an acceptable alternative

!!!! I just knew someone would bring that issue up -- INCORRECTLY !!!!

'ize' is not the 'American' version! That idea came about because an early version of Word came with a dictionary which Bill Gates (or one of his minions) stole from WordPerfect thinking that it was a US version but was in fact their UK version. Over the intervening 30+ years - and of course the attendent rise in popularity of PCs in general and word-processing in particular the 'populace' have assimilated the corruption.

Point taken, and after researching a little, I agree that either is technically acceptable (although be aware there are some words where it isn’t).
However I think in general use ‘ise’ is (was?) more commonly seen in Britain and ‘ize’ in the US. I also opine the exposure to American English is driving the reversion to ize rather than any desire to switch away from French to the Greek roots of British English.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Language, probably one of the best tools in the toolbox.
English is a precise and technical language which I imagine accounts for it's almost universal usage but there are a couple of others that I would describe as more pictorial and in which I can speak a few words.
The first is Dutch (courtesy of my wife) which I would describe as a very earthy language - some of the words and phrases have me rolling around the floor laughing.
Dudelsack - bagpipes - literally a monotone bag.
Stofzuiger - vacuum cleaner - literally a dust sucker.
Drollenvanger - jodhpurs - literally sh!t catchers.
Binoculars - verrekijker - literally far looker.
I can imagine the captain on one of HM warships coming onto the bridge, seeing something on the horizon and saying to the chief officer, 'pass me the far-lookers, No.1....'
And if Dutch is difficult, Irish is even worse. Apart from the grammar with which I have great difficulty, in many instances the translation of the words have meanings which don't appear applicable to the sentiments being expressed. Some simple phrases.
Dia dhuit - hello - literally god to you
Le do thoil - please - literally if it is your will
Go raibh maith agat - thank you - literally may there be goodness at you.
English isn't so bad even though there is a tendency to mess it up a bit.

 

[Alex H]

Just to put my pet irritation into the pot. Why do people start a sentence with "so"? It gets on my wick

So, what is it about starting with "so", that annoys you so much?

 

[Adam W.]

Language, probably one of the best tools in the toolbox.
English is a precise and technical language which I imagine accounts for it's almost universal usage but there are a couple of others that I would describe as more pictorial and in which I can speak a few words.
The first is Dutch (courtesy of my wife) which I would describe as a very earthy language - some of the words and phrases have me rolling around the floor laughing.
Dudelsack - bagpipes - literally a monotone bag.
Stofzuiger - vacuum cleaner - literally a dust sucker.
Drollenvanger - jodhpurs - literally dung catchers.
Binoculars - verrekijker - literally far looker.
I can imagine the captain on one of HM warships coming onto the bridge, seeing something on the horizon and saying to the chief officer, 'pass me the far-lookers, No.1....'
And if Dutch is difficult, Irish is even worse. Apart from the grammar with which I have great difficulty, in many instances the translation of the words have meanings which don't appear applicable to the sentiments being expressed. Some simple phrases.
Dia dhuit - hello - literally god to you
Le do thoil - please - literally if it is your will
Go raibh maith agat - thank you - literally may there be goodness at you.
English isn't so bad even though there is a tendency to mess it up a bit.

You have to have your whole dinner in your mouth to speak Danish.

 

[GweithdyDU]

Language allows us to communicate. We can do that without getting upset about misplaced apostrophes, ise not ize, txtspk etc.

Does the recipient receive the message we thought we sent. Using archaic, local expressions, or languages only understood by 1 in 10000 (eg: Welsh) does not help communicate.

Language may create emotional or spiritual associations. It can even be intellectually stimulating to speculate on the roots and usage of words like "dado". There is little fundamentally worthy about them - that many fail to understand makes them an ineffective way to communicate.

Language changes - a little like history - it is written by the victors not the losers. Many words reflect the dominance of the UK in the industrial revolution for which a new language necessarily evolved.

So are you suggesting that there should just be one language for the world, and that that language should be English? I'm not sure that's what you mean, but merely wondering. Diolch.

 

[Jacob]

That is very un-like you Adam -- I've always looked upon you as one who does immaculate research

A Dado Rail tops the Wainscot and was originally intended to ward off furniture causing damage to said Wainscot or the wall itself. Laterly of course it has become a decorative feature or demarcation.

When I last decorated my hallway I installed a Dado Rail with a vertical stripe wall-paper below (essentially a false Wainscot) and a small print wall-paper above.

Common form of wainscot in Victorian houses was gloss painted anaglypta wall paper from skirting to dado rail at about waist height.
Etymology. From Ancient Greek ἀναγλύφω (anaglúphō, “to carve in relief”). It was originally a brand name, was invented in 1877.

 

[DJT48]

English is the best/worst language (depending I suppose upon your viewpoint) in the world for mutating and theft of words, and is better for it.

Two things that irritate, though - changing to U.S pronunciations, although that's inevitable (we speak English English, not world (U.S.) English, and change that actually makes things longer like "for free". Why? What was wrong with "I picked it up free".

Bad grammar is a different matter, such as using overly when the word used should have been over. But I'm being overly ..... sorry, over fussy.

I don't think you are fussy, the correct word is discerning.

 

[J-G]

Common form of wainscot in Victorian houses was gloss painted anaglypta wall paper from skirting to dado rail at about waist height.
Etymology. From Ancient Greek ἀναγλύφω (anaglúphō, “to carve in relief”). It was originally a brand name, was invented in 1877.

The Victorians may well have used Anaglypta as a faux Wainstcot, but the original Wainscot was (is?) specifically high quality riven Oak boards. The name Anaglypta may well derive from the Greek but Wainscot is derived from German for 'wall-board'

 

[Jacob]

Language is just words but things go wrong when you use words in a way that conflicts with reality. A good example is some of the nonsense now being used like the NHS with " for people who bleed "

Unwoke nonsense! Popular with Daily Mail and Express readers - they like getting their knickers in a twist (and underpants of course )

 

[Jacob]

The Victorians may well have used Anaglypta as a faux Wainstcot, but the original Wainscot was (is?) specifically high quality riven Oak boards. The name Anaglypta may well derive from the Greek but Wainscot is derived from German for 'wall-board'

and "In architecture, the dado is the lower part of a wall, below the dado rail and above the skirting board. The word is borrowed from Italian meaning "dice" or "cube", and refers to "die", an architectural term for the middle section of a pedestal or plinth!"

 

[Spectric]

You could say that all people do bleed but may end up in A&E and not every month.

 

[Garden Shed Projects]

I think we, the English, no longer own the English language. We took it out into the world and encouraged others to speak it, sometimes voluntarily and sometimes not so much. English is used in many lesser spoken languages and patwa’s to describe modern things and concepts. Caribbean countries, African countries, Malaysia on top of countries that use it as a first language it is the standard language for air traffic control, even internal flights in foreign countries have announcements in English ( I used to think it was because I was on the plane). We are very lucky to have been brought up with English as our first language.

It is of course a double edged sword as we are terrible at foreign languages. This carries for the uk and USA, maybe Australia too. Do we have some kind of in built superiority complex or does the language structure not encourage it. It has been proven that different languages build brains differently.

I was listening to recent Infinate Monkey Cage podcast about the best way to teach maths. They were discussing people who don’t do maths (people who say “ I don’t do maths”) versus people who love maths. They mentioned places like Malaysia who as the norm looked at a maths problem and there immediate response being “ I don’t understand this yet”. Like some king of national psychi which gave them selves space to learn and understand complex concepts.

I think this must be the same with us and foreign languages. We don’t allow ourselves room to think and comprehend other languages. Maybe because of the way English makes us think. I am not making excuses for my failure to learn a second language as I live in a multi lingual house hold but still struggle to join in.

 

[niall Y]

Can I offer you some advise…….

................ only if you come from 'Devices'

 

[Jacob]

....

It is of course a double edged sword as we are terrible at foreign languages. .....

We are terrible at our own languages. Many people don't even know they exist, let alone speak them. Languages of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
They should be taught in British schools, along with the inconvenient history of those who speak them.