The joys of electric car ownership!

[selectortone]

So many otherwise perfectly usable vehicles scrapped because of electronic issues and ECU either no longer available or impossible/prohibitively expensive to repair

Planned obsolescence. A foundation stone of consumer capitalism. Cars, fridges, washing machines et al could be built to last for a lot longer than they do, but where's the profit in that?

 

[Fergie 307]

I think the thing that worries many people about the lack of range is that there's little wriggle room if they get caught out with an unexpected long trip, e.g. to a child, a distant elderly relative or hospital. Great fun if you get half way to where you're going and can't find a charging point or haven't the time to use one. When I learned to drive I was taught never to let the petrol get so low I couldn't get somewhere in a hurry in the middle of the night.

I suppose what I am thinking of is a small, short range and affordable EV commuter vehicle, whilst keeping existing larger ICE vehicle for those long journeys, or hiring something bigger when needed. Obviously wouldn't work for everyone but might be a good starting point. I suspect many people would have such infrequent need of something bigger/longer range that hiring for those few occasions would make perfect sense. Works potentially for EV as well in the longer term, why buy a very expensive four seater if the vast majority of journeys are on your own over just a few miles. Can imagine massive opposition from manufacturers to any such idea, their profits largely come from selling us big complicated things we rarely actually need, and replacing them as often as they can persuade us to. Jacob will say use public transport, and ideally of course he is right. If we got our act together there should really be no need for someone living in any sizeable city to need to use their own car within the city itself. Sadly I think we are a long way from that goal. We have been to Holland and Spain many times, and can't think of the last time we used anything other than public transport, whether for local or longer journeys. Cheap, clean and can easily get within walking distance of pretty much wherever you like. Much less grief than driving.

 

[Fergie 307]

Planned obsolescence. A foundation stone of consumer capitalism. Cars, fridges, washing machines et al could be built to last for a lot longer than they do, but where's the profit in that?

I think we are out own worst enemy. We seem to insist on our cars having every conceivable gizmo. I recall my son buying a 1.2 Corsa some years ago, a pretty basic car you would have thought. Electric windows, air conditioning, even bl**dy cruise control for goodness sake, why ?? Doesn't seem anyone makes the equivalent of a 2CV anymore. Pretty much anyone gets in my Wrangler for the first time and "it's got wind up windows" as though this was some kind of catastrophic omission. They look at the handle as though it was a rattlesnake, going to have their hand off. Yes that's right you turn the handle round and round and the window goes up and down, do you need a rest after that ? Same for things like washing machines. Why do I need the thing to communicate with my phone, or play tunes to me ?? All just more stuff to go wrong maybe I'm just a bit of a Meldrew

 

[Terrytpot]

This thread seems to be somewhat at odds with its title…let me attempt to redress the balance.
About a month ago I parted company with the 3.0 diesel BMW I’d had for just over 4 years on a lease deal. That was costing me roughly £280/mth in fuel for someone who doesn’t really do that high a mileage (was returned on 33847 miles).
A week later I picked up my new Škoda Enyaq which I only need to charge once a week, which I could do at home with my own charger but as I get free charging at work it’s currently costing me nothing to keep charged! Long story short is buying this works out cheaper than extending a lease on a 4 year old car with ridiculously antiquated technology on board in comparison to what I now have.

 

[Sachakins]

But you omit to say what the lease cost per month on each vehicle, be interesting to compare the total cost and their comparative value after 4 years?

 

[Jameshow]

I think we are out own worst enemy. We seem to insist on our cars having every conceivable gizmo. I recall my son buying a 1.2 Corsa some years ago, a pretty basic car you would have thought. Electric windows, air conditioning, even bl**dy cruise control for goodness sake, why ?? Doesn't seem anyone makes the equivalent of a 2CV anymore. Pretty much anyone gets in my Wrangler for the first time and "it's got wind up windows" as though this was some kind of catastrophic omission. They look at the handle as though it was a rattlesnake, going to have their hand off. Yes that's right you turn the handle round and round and the window goes up and down, do you need a rest after that ? Same for things like washing machines. Why do I need the thing to communicate with my phone, or play tunes to me ?? All just more stuff to go wrong maybe I'm just a bit of a Meldrew

Sounds like your ready for a Dacia!!

 

[Sachakins]

Just to raise a bit more awareness of the impact of Just Stop Oil now brigade,and those calling for cessation of the extraction oil immediately would have on your daily life.

Here’s what just one barrel of crude oil can produce:

• Enough liquefied gases (such as propane) to fill 12 small (14.1 ounce) cylinders for home, camping or workshop use.
• Enough gasoline to drive a medium-sized car (34 miles per gallon) over 560 miles.
• Asphalt to make about one gallon of tar for patching roofs or streets.
• Lubricants to make about a quart of motor oil.
• Enough distillate fuel to drive a large truck (five miles per gallon) for almost 40 miles. If jet fuel fraction is included, that same truck can run nearly 50 miles.
• Nearly 70 kilowatt hours of electricity at a power plant generated by residual fuel.
• About four pounds of charcoal briquettes.
• Wax for 170 birthday candles or 27 wax crayons.

There are enough petrochemicals left in that same barrel to provide the base for one of the following:

A petri dish with domestic crude oil being poured into it

39 polyester shirts
750 pocket combs
540 toothbrushes
65 plastic dustpans
23 hula hoops
65 plastic drinking cups
195 one-cup measuring cups
11 plastic telephone housings
135 four-inch rubber balls

The lighter materials in a barrel are used mainly for paint thinners and dry-cleaning solvents and they can make nearly a quart of one of these products. The miscellaneous fraction of what is left still contains enough by-products to be used in medicinal oils, still gas, road oil and plant condensates – a real industrial horn of plenty.

So if you succeed in stop oil, now you know the wider impact it will have on your life.

So let's find a replacement before you just stop oil production en masses

 

[Jacob]

.....

So if you succeed in stop oil, now you know the wider impact it will have on your life.

You've missed the point by 50 years or so!
We now have life impacted by excessive use of fossil fuel, which should have been wound down and stopped a long time ago. It's probably too late.

So let's find a replacement before you just stop oil production en masses

We have the replacements already - insulation and demand reduction first, wind power, solar, hydro, etc.
What we don't have is the political will or courage, let alone an intelligent agenda.
This is interesting. Sea surface temperatures breaking records
Look at the graphs; even as recently as the 80s sea temp was high but steady. This year for the first time it is going off the chart. It may recover, it may not.
We now have rapidly melting Antarctica, which with Greenland etc could raise sea levels by 70 metres.
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ice-sheets/

 

[Sachakins]

I don't disagree with you, but wind, solar and tidal power, don't have a constituent part in those items I've mentioned.
Yes they can eventually replace crude oil as a fuel but canot replace that part of those products that are made from the crude oil.

 

[Jacob]

I...... canot replace that part of those products that are made from the crude oil.

They will be a fond memory.
There will be new plant/animal based products such as we have been using for the whole of history but perhaps better. We do know more than we did but it hasn't helped us much so far, in fact we've wrecked the joint.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We now have rapidly melting Antarctica, which with Greenland etc could raise sea levels by 70 metres.

The Antarctic Journal - The continued melting of the West Antarctic ice sheet is progressing faster than expected, and the resulting rise in sea levels will have a global impact. The stark new findings point to a potential sea-level rise of up to 10 feet or more in the coming centuries.

Not quite the same.

 

[Jacob]

The Antarctic Journal - The continued melting of the West Antarctic ice sheet is progressing faster than expected, and the resulting rise in sea levels will have a global impact. The stark new findings point to a potential sea-level rise of up to 10 feet or more in the coming centuries.

Not quite the same.

Do you have a link to the above?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...-the-sea-level-rise-locked-in-east-antarcticahttps://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/

 

[Jameshow]

You've missed the point by 50 years or so!
We now have life impacted by excessive use of fossil fuel, which should have been wound down and stopped a long time ago. It's probably too late.

We have the replacements already - insulation and demand reduction first, wind power, solar, hydro, etc.
What we don't have is the political will or courage, let alone an intelligent agenda.
This is interesting. Sea surface temperatures breaking records
Look at the graphs; even as recently as the 80s sea temp was high but steady. This year for the first time it is going off the chart. It may recover, it may not.
We now have rapidly melting Antarctica, which with Greenland etc could raise sea levels by 70 metres.
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ice-sheets/

Do you know Jacob what wind turbines are made of?? I'll give you a clue it isn't wood!!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.antarcticajournal.com/antarctic-thaw-now-unstoppable/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Strange how so many prophets of doom have multi, multi $Million beachside properties.

 

[Jacob]

Strange how so many prophets of doom have multi, multi $Million beachside properties.

They can afford it while the going is still good?
Who did you have in mind?
But it's not true - the mega wealth is with the fossil fuel industry.
The prophets of doom, scientists involved, will be much less well off. Normal people and normal wages and salaries on the whole.
Phil - instead of looking for "signs" why not look at evidence?

 

[Fergie 307]

Do you have a link to the above?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...-the-sea-level-rise-locked-in-east-antarcticahttps://www.asoc.org/learn/antarctic-ice-and-rising-sea-levels/

Jacob. Hyperbole doesn't help.your argument. This is the conclusion of the article you linked to,
"sea levels will rise between 11 and 21 inches (28 – 55cm) by the end of the century. However, they note that a sea level rise of over 6 feet can’t be ruled out under a worst case scenario".
So not 70m. Did you even read it? No one is suggesting that all the ice is going to melt, so the total amount of water they contain cannot be referred to as a likely rise in sea level. The real threat, as you would know if you had actually read the article you linked to, and many others in a similar vein, is that the increase in sea temperature is undermining the ice shelves. This will eventually cause them to break away from the land and melt, with the result outlined in their conclusion.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Phil - instead of looking for "signs" why not look at evidence?

Like evidence of a seventy metre rise?

 

[Jacob]

Like evidence of a seventy metre rise?

Yes look at that, then look at the arguments for lower levels e.g. 10ft in 200 years etc.
Nobody is trying to pull a fast one (except the committed sceptics and the fossil fuel industry) it's all under consideration and much more interesting if you have an open mind.
One consistent feature, ringing through like a death knell, is that most of the forecasts so far have been reached sooner than expected.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Like the "scientific" forecast not many decades ago that we're heading for another ice age?