DennisCA":3pevrere said:I wonder if they had similar discussions in the late 1800s here when double glazing was becoming standard on houses.
Do you mean this type of double glazing?
DennisCA":3pevrere said:I wonder if they had similar discussions in the late 1800s here when double glazing was becoming standard on houses.
dzj":ldbdiywr said:DennisCA":ldbdiywr said:I wonder if they had similar discussions in the late 1800s here when double glazing was becoming standard on houses.
Do you mean this type of double glazing?
zb1":1nv7zein said:It's not the DGUs that are the problem it's the way EPCs are scored that is the issue, that and the prices peddled by some national installers.
Double glazing provides a greatly increased acoustic and thermal insulation values. A standard 4mm annealed glass sheet has a u value of u/5.8. the same double glazed unit with two sheets of 4mm and a 16mm spacer with 90% argon fill gives you u/2.6. Add a low emissive coat to the DGU and this falls to u/1.2. This not only decreases heat loss from the building but also helps to improve the internal atmosphere by reducing condensation and stabilising internal relative humidity.
The acoustic performance is also marked, especially if you have two different glass thicknesses making up the DGU.
On top of that DGUs are not really that expensive. 19m2 of 4-16-4 low-e argon fill should be in the region of £600 +VAT for the units. You should make that back in gas bills in 5-7 years depending on usage. (That article is from 2005 claiming £150-200 p/a, the price of gas has gone up about 10% since then.)
As for the 5 year replacement, 5 years is the minimum guarantee provided by most unit manufacturers. However the vast majority of units last much, much longer. 15-20 years is a better estimate of average life span. The reasons units fail is also much better understood now than it was 30 years ago. Units should be drained and vented so the hot melt used in the sealing process is never sat in water either through condensation or weathering. This is why the units are sat on packers and the frames should have drain holes. That goes for uPVC frames and wooden frames. On the subject of longevity the uPVC frames also have a limited life with UV degradation. If you have wooden windows that are well maintained the cost of replacing the units ever 20 years should be easily recoverable against the rising cost of gas.
Having said all that if your sales person manages to get someone to pay £12.5k then the payback will never really appear. I did the 9 windows in our house which equal approx 13m2 for less than £2k 3 years ago but I do have trade contacts for the uPVC frames and a glass merchant that gets a lot of custom from us.
It didn't get going in the UK until quite recently. 1960s? No doubt there were all manner of earlier experiments.DennisCA":2tv1uyxh said:I wonder if they had similar discussions in the late 1800s here when double glazing was becoming standard on houses.
There plenty of cheaper ways of fixing condensation problems and anyway DG doesn't do it very well without other measures in place.Cant imagine going back to single glazing with all the condensation related problems. More inclined to look at triple glazing for any future windows I make particularly if they are north facing. In a completely uninsulated house I am sure the difference a bit of DG makes in very small but with a low U value homes the percentage difference DG makes is far greater.
Forgotten about that! I'll dig out the photos. It's an on going experiment and so far all is well on old and new work.RogerS":2fbbewn7 said:Much as it goes against the grain ( :wink: ) I am with Jacob on this one 100%
And here is the original post about the linseed oil paints. For those who are new to the forum, Mr Grimsdale is Jacob. http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... f=7&t=1968
Jacob":vivdfz9h said:Several hundred sash windows period replica replacement and repair maintenance of several hundred more. Zero plastic windows. A couple of goes at DG in old sashes but decided it was a waste of time. And a lot of other woodworky stuff, conservation, building work and bits n bobs of furniture.Lons":vivdfz9h said:......
How many have you actually fitted yourself to provide you with so much enlightenment btw?
cheers
Bob
A never ending stream of enquiries ; what to do about failed DG units i.e. seals gone misted up inside and the impossibility of getting anyone to honour guarantees. They tend to imagine that they are just unlucky, not realising that it is extremely common. The ones that don't fail seem to be the lucky few.
Trad windows can last 100s of years. I'm strongly inclined to think that I wouldn't have been in business at all if it hadn't been for modern paint - stripping off the old linseed oil paint and replacing with modern is the kiss of death. Even new work suffers with modern paint. I'm about 7 years into linseed oil paints and the difference is astonishing. I wish I had known about it sooner.
:lol: :lol: :lol:Zero plastic windows
Over the years I've had hundreds of queries about failed DG units. Maybe they simply give up on the original suppliers and go straight to the alternatives.Lons":sk1ory4b said:.....
I can honestly say that in 18 years I have had only 2 callbacks to PVCu
Controlled ventilation costs very little. Worst option of all is the dreadful "de-humidifier".......
Jacob is right in that there are ways to reduce condensation and save heat, some cheap, .....
Jacob":28p3jels said:But I'd expect that there was (and continues to be) lots of discussion of the other ways of keeping the heat in, such as blinds, curtains, shutters, insulation in general.
RogerS":2bvlhfh6 said:There is a small joinery company that recently supplied 400 double-glazed timer windows for a construction site down South. They used the 'heritage' type spacers in the double-glazing units...ie the ones that are lower profile than normal and so let the DGU sit inside a 10mm rebate rather than deeper rebates of 15mm or more.....you know the ones, those with 6 x2 glazing bars ... :wink:
370 have failed. There's a moral there somewhere...not sure where...heritage seals maybe.
Unless he has a lot of very poor fitters and poor quality components around where he lives I'd suggest it's an exageration :roll:Over the years I've had hundreds of queries about failed DG units.
Not at all.Lons":1xi8mq3u said:......
Jacob claimsUnless he has a lot of very poor fitters and poor quality components around where he lives I'd suggest it's an exageration :roll:.....Over the years I've had hundreds of queries about failed DG units.
At last Jacob, the truth is out and you're starting to make sense. failed sealed units in TIMBER frames has bu**er all to do with the argument and your clain that PVCu frames are ****so maybe it was people with failed units in wooden windows who would call me rather than the DG suppliers.
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