THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Keith Cocker]

Just posted n case anyone is thinking of supporting Reform.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjmmrwexv4ko

 

[RobinBHM]

People want to hear truth

The Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Telegraph say they disagree

 

[sploo]

Just posted n case anyone is thinking of supporting Reform.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjmmrwexv4ko

But he said it "tongue in cheek". Of course. Definitely. Ahem.

 

[Spectric]

UK productivity is at a materially lower level than many developed other economies.

With a high percentage of the population in employment and being productive with everyone actually paying their fair share then income tax could be lower and still have more revenue for public services. What you cannot do is try and meet your needs by trying to keep the pot filled with less people by raising the taxes more and more.

Time for Starmer to start telling the truth about public spending and higher taxes. People want to hear truth.

Fully agree, much better to be honest upfront than keep hiding the truth because at some point it will be evident. Starmer has nothing to lose by being honest, he already has the keys for number ten and telling people that they will be paying more tax will go over many peoples heads because all they want is no more Sunak but always be careful about what you wish for especially if it is the unknown without anything solid and that adds up.

what you are saying is those on lower incomes should be taxed more

To get the country moving and people into work they need the basic incentive that working will pay the bills, put food on the table and a roof over there heads, so raising the tax threshold to around £22000 for people on less than £30000 would really help. This tax threshold is removed if you earn more than say £40000 and now it is £13000 but you dont pay high rate tax until lets say £60000 at which point it is 45% and for everything over £4000000 you pay 40% on all of it.

Tony, do you live in a mortgage free house?

I would suggest that most boomers born pre 65 are mortgage free because they worked when the economy was much stronger and housing was a lower percentage of income so more disposable income, this is where so many get things wrong because it is not what you earn but what you have left at the end of the month that counts.

 

[Spectric]

Getting in bed with Hitler, yes big old smoking Churchill and Hitler sharing a bed does conjue up some images ! Think about it logically, was the cost in human lives worth the outcome ? Maybe doing just that rather than charging in would have given us more time in which Hitler could have been taken out .

 

[Yojevol]

Maybe doing just that rather than charging in would have given us more time in which Hitler could have been taken out .

Oh yes? Look what happened when Stalin got into bed with Hitler.

 

[Spectric]

Conservatives have cancelled their digital campaign, So all those ads pushing the "labour will cost you £2000 tax" have been pulled...although I suspect they might be changing their strategy as a result of Farage standing, maybe we shall see Conservatives going further right of Reform!!

But was the error just over 4 years which was probably a handy political slip up.

watch

or just read the attachment but remember that all this stems from politicians and politics so treat everything as the Tv game show, truth or lie which should invite the politicians to take part to make interesting viewing.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Getting in bed with Hitler, yes big old smoking Churchill and Hitler sharing a bed does conjue up some images ! Think about it logically, was the cost in human lives worth the outcome ? Maybe doing just that rather than charging in would have given us more time in which Hitler could have been taken out .

Hitler had some very funny bed habits. I’m sure he made the Black Widow Spider look kind to her mates.

 

[Jacob]

.... with everyone actually paying their fair share then income tax could be lower.....

What is a "fair share"? How would you calculate it?
I think it would be impossible - there are too many variables.
More a case of raising enough, by one sort of progressive tax or another, to pay for what the country needs , and then seeing how that pans out, making adjustments and changes where it might seem necessary.
Clearly a very large amount can be taken from the very wealthy as it is surplus to their needs, and vice versa the poor, with all stages in between.
In WW2 income tax top rate reached 99.25%. Was that fair?
Or forget "fairness", it's not relevant, a red herring? Think more of practicable, necessary, etc etc.
Arguably it's now an emergency thanks to 14 years of tory misrule, not to mention Thatcher, brexit, covid, Truss, etc - maybe go for top rate 99.25% to get us back up to speed as fast as possible?

 

[Spectric]

What is a "fair share"? How would you calculate it?

If the tax rate is 20% then for every penny you earn in the UK you will pay 20% tax on everything above the tax threshold at source without any stuffing it under a mattress or losing it through some tax avoidance scheme which is fair.

 

[RobinBHM]

But was the error just over 4 years which was probably a handy political slip up.

watch

or just read the attachment but remember that all this stems from politicians and politics so treat everything as the Tv game show, truth or lie which should invite the politicians to take part to make interesting viewing.

there’s a few things to note

1) the £2000 is just Tories making assumptions about the costs of labours policies

2) even if true, it’s actually over 4 years

3) taxes policies Labour are looking at do not spread out across the nation, they are targeted

4) Sunak lied when he said it was civil service approved

It’s pure propaganda

 

[Jameshow]

Blaming the tax system, and insisting increased taxes are the solution to inequality has elements of denial within it. Answers are first needed to some fundamental questions - eg:

• UK productivity is at a materially lower level than many developed other economies. We should better understand why and what needs to be done.
• health related benefit claimants have increased substantially. Some clearly have problems and need support or are the product of NHS waiting lists. Some (I suspect) feel "entitled" and GPs etc are too busy or disinclined to challenge spurious claims.
• all key services can be improved with more resources - healthcare and education would materially benefit. Explicit debate is needed to properly understand the balance between quality and affordability. The best of everything is not affordable (however desirable)
• the number of civil servants has increased from 390k in 2016 to 500k in 2023. We need to understand why and act where activities and jobs are no longer needed.
• selective statistics to prove preconceived points does not add to the debate. For instance OECD poverty statistics OECD shows the UK firmly mid table, not some sort of pariah state with gross levels of deprivation.

Tax increases would be better justified if answers to important questions were forthcoming. In their absence, higher taxes are perceived as an unacceptable solution to state sponsored inefficiency.

It is no surprise that many prefer lower taxes - individually they can decide where their money should be spent.

Perhaps that's because we have stripped out manufacturing and non mechanised farming from our economy and those jobs would have suited working class men, who I reckon are the biggest group of neets.
France and Spain have low level agriculture Germany and Italy have more engineering.

 

[RobinBHM]

the number of civil servants has increased from 390k in 2016 to 500k in 2023. We need to understand why

A = brexit

 

[planesleuth]

Looking forward to another 'muppet thursday' when all the country's muppets go out to vote for the rich and powerful snakes in the pit. Why do you continue? FPTP and no box to tick for no confidence? Do you all really think this is democracy? PAH!

 

[Scruples]

Looking forward to another 'muppet thursday' when all the country's muppets go out to vote for the rich and powerful snakes in the pit. Why do you continue? FPTP and no box to tick for no confidence? Do you all really think this is democracy? PAH!

And here ends the political broadcast for the Disillusioned. Now we return to the real world where people are allowed to make up therr own minds. And yes, that is Democracy.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Looking forward to another 'muppet thursday' when all the country's muppets go out to vote for the rich and powerful snakes in the pit. Why do you continue? FPTP and no box to tick for no confidence? Do you all really think this is democracy? PAH!

So we are all muppets apart from you eh? It might not be ideal but it’s what we’ve got and so I’m going out to vote with all the other muppets in hope of getting something a bit better than “I’m all right Jack”.

 

[RobinBHM]

Looking forward to another 'muppet thursday' when all the country's muppets go out to vote for the rich and powerful snakes in the pit. Why do you continue? FPTP and no box to tick for no confidence? Do you all really think this is democracy? PAH!

Please have a look at what MPs do behind the media scrum of sound bites and slogans, there are some very talented and hard working people in politics, I think it’s sad when people just say they are all muppets


I am pleased to see Torsten Bell is standing as a Labour candidate in the election.

For those who don’t know Torsten Bell is an economist who is (or was) director of resolution foundation, he also has appeared as an expert on select committees. He knows his stuff on the problems in this country


Also maybe you could listen to Darren Jones MP, he is another example of being not a muppet

 

[RobinBHM]

Starmer has nothing to lose by being honest

Keir Starmer has only made Labour electable by being extremely careful to avoid R/W attacks and traps -which is why they have never produced a manifesto.


the last 40 years has seen an endless stream of parties being elected off the back of promising to lower taxes, Jeremy Hunt did in the last budget "we are lowering NI, we are lowering taxes while Labour would increase them (whilst carefully ignoring the fact Conservatives have put in place £80b of tax rises since 2019)

Ive yet to see the evidence that a party saying they will raise taxes will get elected

 

[sploo]

Looking forward to another 'muppet thursday' when all the country's muppets go out to vote for the rich and powerful snakes in the pit. Why do you continue? FPTP and no box to tick for no confidence? Do you all really think this is democracy? PAH!

Courtesy of the late, great, Douglas Adams:

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"​

 

[Jacob]

Keir Starmer has only made Labour electable by being extremely careful to avoid R/W attacks and traps -which is why they have never produced a manifesto.

Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, made labour electable.
A missed opportunity for Starmer to come out fighting with his own attacks and traps for the tories. That's what he's there for!
Instead he keeps his head down, except for appeasing the enemy by ceaselessly attacking his own party!
A better leader would have been setting out a radical agenda for the next 5 years.
The suspicion is he doesn't have one and will be another lame duck.
What he represents is the UK move to the right in line with most of Europe recently.
UK led this shift with Brexit heralding the start of the collapse of the EU and a slow return to the dark ages.