THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Rhossydd]

Funny how 'virtue' has become a dirty word - my guess is it's happened at the mouths of those who have none.

Similarly some one that wants to do good things gets labelled as a 'do gooder' as some sort of reverse insult.

 

[Rhossydd]

No but scrapping the only potential deterent

It's not worked, it was never going to work, it costs absurd amounts of money. Scrapping it on day one was a smart decision.

 

[Jacob]

No but scrapping the only potential deterent before having something to replace it is a really stupid move because anything has to be better than nothing.

What, spending £270million and deterring nobody? Could have given 27000 immigrants ten thousand quid each if they promised to oeuf off! I'd go like a shot!

 

[Jacob]

Similarly some one that wants to do good things gets labelled as a 'do gooder' as some sort of reverse insult.

.....and "virtue signallers" get crucified!

 

[Jacob]

......


No but it would be nice to have the skill to sharpen a chiesel !!!!

Is that a diesel powered chisel?
One thing that immigrants do bring is trad skills. I hear glowing reports of Polish joiners who really know how to do things.

 

[Spectric]

No just some ashley isles bevel chisels that were handy but somewhat dull at present.

 

[RobinBHM]

Allow me to show you some opposing figures.
And by a corporation that is actually pro immigration.

Between 1999 and 2012, immigration from outside the EU was a net drain to the country of £125billion. That’s at a time when we hadn’t even heard of a billion

Thank you for your counter argument.

You’ve included a BBC link and you’ve provided a quote.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25880373

I am rather confused as I can’t find your quote anywhere in that BBC article nor can I find the figures you quote, in fact the article you have linked supports the evidence I provided from migration observatory, which you refuted.



from the BBC article you have linked, it says

1) Those from the European Economic Area (EEA - the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) had made a particularly positive contribution in the decade up to 2011, the authors noted, contributing 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits and services

2) Immigrants to the UK since 2000 have made a "substantial" contribution to public finances, a recently published report claimed.

3) The story is slightly different for immigrants who came to the UK from outside the EEA in that period. They also put more into the public purse than they took out,

I would be grateful if you could provide the source for your figures, which doesn’t appear to be from your link.


PS: I won’t accept any “evidence” from migration watch, that is a lobby group funded by right wing sources pushing an anti migrant narrative.

 

[Scruples]

It's pure fantasy. The Rwanda scheme wouldn't have deterred anybody as nobody had been sent there! Definitely a very low risk compared to the other hazards of the journey!
In any case it was irrelevant to the problem as the vast majority of immigrants arrive by other means
Also it was obvious to everybody (except the unwoke) that it was just another lunatic scheme designed to attract the unwoke vote

"Kevin Saunders, former chief immigration officer for Border Force, told Times Radio he was concerned about the lack of a clear plan from Labour on how to stop small boat crossings.
Mr Saunders, a Rwanda scheme supporter, said the plan had caused "unease in the camps in northern France".
"They were very, very worried. And we saw people fleeing to the Republic of Ireland because they didn't want to be included in it," he said."

If the scheme hadn't been hampered by legal challenges, it would have served to reduce the attraction to cross Europe to get here.

 

[Jacob]

"Kevin Saunders, former chief immigration officer for Border Force, told Times Radio he was concerned about the lack of a clear plan from Labour on how to stop small boat crossings.
Mr Saunders, a Rwanda scheme supporter, said the plan had caused "unease in the camps in northern France".
"They were very, very worried. And we saw people fleeing to the Republic of Ireland because they didn't want to be included in it," he said."

If the scheme hadn't been hampered by legal challenges, it would have served to reduce the attraction to cross Europe to get here.

That's a quote from a Rwanda scheme supporter and hence meaningless.
How did these people get from the beaches in France to RoI?

 

[Chris152]

"Kevin Saunders, former chief immigration officer for Border Force, told Times Radio he was concerned about the lack of a clear plan from Labour on how to stop small boat crossings.
Mr Saunders, a Rwanda scheme supporter, said the plan had caused "unease in the camps in northern France".
"They were very, very worried. And we saw people fleeing to the Republic of Ireland because they didn't want to be included in it," he said."

If the scheme hadn't been hampered by legal challenges, it would have served to reduce the attraction to cross Europe to get here.

According to one bloke who liked the Rwanda scheme.

 

[RobinBHM]

"Kevin Saunders, former chief immigration officer for Border Force, told Times Radio he was concerned about the lack of a clear plan from Labour on how to stop small boat crossings.
Mr Saunders, a Rwanda scheme supporter, said the plan had caused "unease in the camps in northern France".
"They were very, very worried. And we saw people fleeing to the Republic of Ireland because they didn't want to be included in it," he said."

If the scheme hadn't been hampered by legal challenges, it would have served to reduce the attraction to cross Europe to get here.

Kevin Saunders is often trotted out…..he is a Conservative supporter, so his comments are politically biased not based on expertise.

If the scheme hadn't been hampered by legal challenges, it would have served to reduce the attraction to cross Europe to get here.

There’s no evidence to support that, in fact small boat crossings went up during the period when Rwanda scheme was being implemented.

And what would’ve happened when Rwanda couldn’t take anymore?

Also how many refugees would Rwanda have sent to,U.K.? (Yes it was a reciprocal,arrangement)

 

[mark w]

The truth is that the Rwanda project was starting to see results with people smugglers moving their operations to southern Ireland according to the immigration chiefs. Perhaps you should find out more before offering your opinions as facts.

Rwanda was a poorly thought out idea, if indeed any thought went into at all. Scruples you say it had started to show results, I doubt that but even if it did, at what cost to the tax payer. Starmer now has the right idea,

 

[stuart little]

Now we have a Labour Government, should we start a Poll on when the first National Strikes will start and by who?

Well it won't be coal miners!

 

[stuart little]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0veqgr7lw4o

Great start to the new Gov!

Begin as you mean to go on!

That's my faith in them sunk!

What sort of PR people advise politicians?!!

'Silly' ones?

 

[Spectric]

Well firstly congratulations on such a good thread involving political debate where everyone got there views over and has reached 89 pages without being shut down.

Well the thread title says it all, the 4th of July which has now passed and the election is over so until 2029 when we can start a new discussion on the next election I think we need to start getting back to our woodworking and having some good threads on what we have been doing or making and learning new skills along the way.

All the best from the moderation team.