Students.

[Chems]

I have neither the need nor the desire to communicate in code.

Not even if it was in C?!

(Can you help with my homework! :ho2 )

 

[Digit]

Pedantic, yes, and there is a reason for it.
I went to bed at 2 am today 'cos I was in debate with an American group. Due my other interests I talk to people on various continents, some have English about as good as my Punjabi, others have it at graduate level and they can be utterly baffled by colloquial usages
An example was a report earlier this week by a British Met group that they can predict Atlantic hurricanes, not just for the season, but for years ahead.
One poor chap was lost, predictions are what you get from a fair ground fortune teller. From the met boys we want forecasts.
Is it not easier to be correct than keep having to explain?
And name calling is pointless BTW.
(Mind you with the record of some of our Met groups predictions is probably pretty accurate!)

Roy.

 

[Max Power]

Conversing with Americans Roy, now theres a group that can murder the English language :shock:

 

[chris_d]

I think it is time for some useful facts.

I went to university at the turn of the millennium. My very kind and hardworking parents paid £2K per year in tuition fees and covered my rent. All my other costs were paid out of my student loan and a small income from a job working for a research group at the university.

I left university £13K in debt and can't say that I lived the 'high life'. Without my parents' help, that would have been £33K! :shock:

I worked my socks off to graduate top of my year in Computer Systems Engineering - I wanted to make sure that I got a good job as a sign of respect and gratitude to my parents who sacrificed so much to support me. My parents were not well off but earned just enough that 'means testing' disqualified them from any relief on the tuition fees. They have the last Labour Government to thank for that as my older sister's fees were funded by a State grant (pre 1997).

My qualification, from an outstanding university, opened the door to a reasonably well paid career in Engineering - I was able to pay off my student loan within my first three years of employment (with a little help from a sad inheritance). However, I don't think that my degree taught me much about being a useful Engineer (I think you either have it or you don't) but it was a fundamental enabler to getting a job in my particular industry sector.

Now here is the punch line - looking back, if I didn't have parental support and the potential debt burden of a degree was nearly £55K (fees at £9K per annum plus other costs) then I simply wouldn't have gone to university!

Whilst at university and subsequently, I have observed friends, cousins and acquaintances etc, who were not really bright enough to gain any real benefit from a degree, going to university simply because they could. Some got State support, some didn't but all of them are saddled with debt of some sort. This is the biggest failure of modern times and is having a profound effect on the wider economy and society - just look how many young adults are still living with their parents, unable to afford housing due to their debts or get a worthwhile job with their dubious degree qualifications. The knock-on effect is that there are very few first time buyers in the housing market, skills shortages in certain key industries and rising unemployment for a whole generation.

I am saddened by the ridiculous notion that almost anyone should go to university since the consequence to date is that the cost of education has risen for all students, regardless of whether their qualification benefits their employability and/or earnings potential.

I absolutely reject the violence shown at the student demonstrations but agree with the notion that £9K per annum will prevent talented and deserving people from achieving their full potential in life. I'm even more frustrated that the current generation of policy makers are those who benefited from a completely free education through the university grant system yet have the audacity to increase fees even more.

I fully understand that in this age of austerity that cuts need to be made but what should actually be cut is the number of lightweight degree places that do not fundamentally improve the prospects of those attending them yet limit the funds available for supporting the most deserving undergraduates and the truly worthwhile and demonstrably beneficial degree courses leading to real jobs.

 

[Max Power]

Very well put Chris =D> =D> =D>

 

[Chems]

Whilst at university and subsequently, I have observed friends, cousins and acquaintances etc, who were not really bright enough to gain any real benefit from a degree, going to university simply because they could. Some got State support, some didn't but all of them are saddled with debt of some sort. This is the biggest failure of modern times and is having a profound effect on the wider economy and society - just look how many young adults are still living with their parents, unable to afford housing due to their debts or get a worthwhile job with their dubious degree qualifications. The knock-on effect is that there are very few first time buyers in the housing market, skills shortages in certain key industries and rising unemployment for a whole generation.

I am saddened by the ridiculous notion that almost anyone should go to university since the consequence to date is that the cost of education has risen for all students, regardless of whether their qualification benefits their employability and/or earnings potential.

That is so true. Well said!

 

[Digit]

Couldn't agree more Chris, congratulations on your success and on your efforts. Well done.
PS. I still that Squirrel looks bloody dangerous! Hope he's on our side!

Roy.

 

[Anonymous]

What has morse code got to do with this, by the way? I have neither the need nor the desire to communicate in code. I don't like 'text' speak.
I don't think though that not being able to spell makes you sub human.

Long live the fifth column.

But didn't you communicate in code a few posts back?

and for those that care it translates to this

Good on your wife. i applaud her. however, not everyone places such importance on correct spelling or grammar. it's not the end of the world. if you don't want to try to read what they've written just move on.

To suggest that illiteracy is ok, is so very wrong.

 

[Digit]

Conversing with Americans Roy, now theres a group that can murder the English language

Some of the exchanges have been hilarious. I used a fairly common expression on one occasion, 'in and out like a fiddler's elbow,' it was then that I discovered that the expression was unknown on their side of the pond.
Pedantic I may be, but even between British English speakers it all too easy to offend, but when the other person doesn't understand common expressions it can become a mine field.
A Dutch man I speak with put his foot in it in New York when he found that some of the hotel rooms had gold plated bathroom fittings, when he asked at reception for a room 'with golden showers' the girl behind the desk had a fit!

Roy.

 

[Digit]

The problem for me Mark was that I was interested based on the pictures with the text, thus I had to labour through, but I also wonder how many potential purchasers gave up. The vendor wasn't doing himself any favours I feel.

Roy.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem for me Mark was that I was interested based on the pictures with the text, thus I had to labour through, but I also wonder how many potential purchasers gave up. The vendor wasn't doing himself any favours I feel.

Roy.

It would make me think twice to reply to an advert riddled with spelling mistakes to be honest.

 

[Jacob]

...
To suggest that illiteracy is ok, is so very wrong.

Illiteracy and /or poor spelling/grammar is a fact of life for some people. They don't choose. Nothing wrong about it - they shouldn't let it hold them back, or be put off by the "literati" - many of them have eff all worth saying anyway!
What you say is (or should be) a lot more important than how you say or write and spell it.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ah, the aliens have departed! Welcome back, Jacob!

Actually there is everything wrong with bad spelling, grammar and punctuation. It's wrong because it changes the meaning of things. Is Discrete the same as Discreet? Complimentary the same as Complementary? There the same as Their or Advise the same as Advice? Of course not! I don't want to have to guess at what the writer may have intended to say.

S

 

[Digit]

What you say is (or should be) a lot more important than how you say or write and spell it.

Agreed. Always provided of course that your audience can understand you, which is the point at issue here. If they can't, no matter how valuable your contribution might be, you are not going to get it across are you?
I started a new school in Berkshire as a teenager, only to find that my teacher had the broadest Scot's accent I had met, I had to tell him eventually that I couldn't understand a word he was saying!

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

Ah, the aliens have departed! Welcome back, Jacob!

Actually there is everything wrong with bad spelling, grammar and punctuation. It's wrong because it changes the meaning of things. Is Discrete the same as Discreet? Complimentary the same as Complementary? There the same as Their or Advise the same as Advice? Of course not! I don't want to have to guess at what the writer may have intended to say.

S

Well said, Steve. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[devonwoody]

I have just come back to this thread, ( I shut down evenings)

ChrisD, your post was excellent and summary in my mind was perfect.

 

[PeterBassett]

Maybe because to them, it may NOT be important. It annoys you, I get that, but in the grand scheme of things it's not really that important. You can still understand what he's saying in the example, so what's the problem?
Maybe that you had to work a little harder to read it?

As for tarring all students with the same brush - I obviously didn't mean you personally, rather the country as a whole.

Yebbut just because you place that importance on the English language doesn't mean every one else does/should. I wasn't suggesting you think 'bad spellers' are sub human, but that, above almost all else, seems to get regularly flagged up (see Mooses thread about the bench as an example).
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

In my opinion, education is a privilege and should be the right of every citizen. And I would be happy to pay taxes to that end.
That's all I have to say on the matter.

You pedantic, pathetic pineapple.

1) Spelling is very important.
2) I don't think they are sub human. Just that they need to make the effort.
3) Trolling : Overall C-. Must try harder.

 

[RogerS]

The question of money prompted me to do a little research. I never got a grant for my first degree. Instead I worked evenings and weekends plus a small loan from the bank each year underwritten by my parents. Cost was about £3000 a year. That was in 1968. In 2008, £3000 equates to £39,000 based on the Retail Price Index or £76,000 based on average earnings.

So suddenly £9000 a year sounds rather good value to me.

 

[Jacob]

.....
1) Spelling is very important.

I'd omit the "very" - yes but not so important that a bad speller should be discouraged from writing anything, or joining in forums like this.

2) ......they need to make the effort.

I think they probably do the best they can - nobody wants to appear to be illiterate if they can help it.
As for discrete/discreet, complementary/complimentary and many other examples - very competent writers can get these wrong - hence the need for proof readers. Just think of the Grauniad.
TBH I wasn't entirely aware of the differences until they were pointed out - thanks Steve! However I bet they are often interchanged and nobody notices - the context gives the meaning.
I'm bad on too/to, lose/loose, friend/fiend, your/you're etc.

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

Ah, the aliens have departed! Welcome back, Jacob!

Actually there is everything wrong with bad spelling, grammar and punctuation. It's wrong because it changes the meaning of things. Is Discrete the same as Discreet? Complimentary the same as Complementary? There the same as Their or Advise the same as Advice? Of course not! I don't want to have to guess at what the writer may have intended to say.

S

Agreed, it is the difference between:

Helping your Uncle Jack off a horse
&
Helping your uncle jack off a horse

I doubt many would be willing to do the latter..