Split top Roubo bench on a budget

[Farmer Giles]

Aye Andy, the top should be able to take a couple of swipes with a plane before it becomes translucent

I got all the remaining stretchers and the legs cut to size and cut all the tenons today. Next job the mortices, then adjust the tenons to fit on the router table.

Cheers
Andy

 

[TFrench]

Good to see you back on it Andy, was only thinking the other day I hadn't seen anything from you in a long time! If you are looking for a wadkin saw I've got a BGP panel saw I'll be selling shortly...

 

[Farmer Giles]

Cheers I would love a Wadkin PK or a PP, but the BGP sounds interesting. Might take up too much floor space though.

 

[TFrench]

Same here, I'd love the BGP at home but it wouldn't leave me with much room to work around it! I was looking at a restored PK the other day in a dealer's, they really are a thing of beauty.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I haven't had much time today, just an hour after work. I've marked out all the mortices and labelled them with their corresponding tenon. Next time I get to play will be the end of the week and I will lay all the legs and stretchers out and check I have marked the correct faces then check the measurement.

Next I searched around the workshop and gathered up all the hardware for the vice screw including bits of bronze for spacers and washers, SKF thrust bearings and a large lump of acetal. The acetal fits into the leg and the vice screw passes through it to provide a low friction but snug fitting. The hole in the acetal will be slightly oval to allow a bit of up and down movement but almost zero side to side. Now where did I put those oval drill bits?

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

It was a good job I laid the components out before I chiselled the mortices as I had marked out the rear right leg mortices in the wrong place.

I then chiselled out the mortices on the Axminster morticer that the wife bought me for my 40th Birthday, I think I have used it 3 times in over 15 years

I initially just cut one mortice and fitted the tenon using a shoulder plane to make sure I wasn't making another ****-up

The outside of the stretcher needs to be flush with the leg as it could potentially be a clamping surface, this is the back right end stretcher so less likely than the front. This was during fitting, by the time the tenon fitted the faces were flush. Ignore the pencil line, that was caused by moving from imperial to metric plans.

I then chopped out all the remaining mortices and if I get time tomorrow I may be able to fit the tenons and have a dry fit of all the joints and start thinking about draw boring the end frames and drilling holes for the captive nuts and bolts.

Regards
Andy

 

[Bm101]

It was a good job I laid the components out before I chiselled the mortices as I had marked out the rear right leg mortices in the wrong place.

Love it. Good to know it's not just me who has Waaiiiit....wha' the fuuuuuuu..... Noooooooooo !!?!! moments.
I used to read proper woodworkers talk about face marks and marking waste areas hard and I'd think, ahhhh, come on now. This is the simple stuff Shirley.
Then you realise as you start to do a bit more.
Ah yeh. Ok.
Glad you spotted it Andy.
Looking good. (hammer)
Chris

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks Chris, with age I have begun to realise if I can screw it up, I will, so I try to reduce the opportunities plus I have modified the old adage, measure twice, cut once to measure three times....

I made a bit of progress today. I decided to work on the front lower stretched first while fresh as it is the one that ideally must be flush with the legs as it forms part of the main clamping area. Also it needs to be level as the sliding deadman slides on it. First I needed to clear the bottom of the mortices with the router plane as I needed a couple of mill of clearance to make sure the joint tightened on the shoulders of the tenon as it looked a bit tight. Before the router plane...

and after....

Then adjust the tenons to fit with the shoulder plane, looks flush

and square

Looks good

So do the same the other end of the stretcher and try it all together.

The stretcher is the same distance from the top of the legs on both sides so bodes well for the sliding deadman.

I then went ahead and worked on the other stretchers, of the 12 tenons I've just about completed 8 so not far from being able to assemble the full frame.

Once I have completed a tenon, I mark a big cross on both major sides with a black marker to make sure I don't inadvertently start adjusting the wrong end. They are all labelled too so I would have to be a complete ***** to **** it up. So far so good......
Cheers
Andy

 

[MikeG.]

........Love it. Good to know it's not just me who has Waaiiiit....wha' the fuuuuuuu..... Noooooooooo !!?!! moments.
I used to read proper woodworkers talk about face marks and marking waste areas hard and I'd think, ahhhh, come on now. This is the simple stuff Shirley.
Then you realise as you start to do a bit more..........

Absolutely. I went to the Globe Theatre in London a few years ago and stood right next to a post which had a mortise drilled out but not chiseled, where someone had obviously realised a bit too late that they weren't working on the post they thought they were working on. Same thing in Lavenham last weekend, in a hugely expensive oak framed extension to a really famous building. I write in big letters in a fat marker pen on oak frames, because it is so hard orientating yourself sometimes, and absolutely the same principles apply to furniture and other smaller projects. My son in law chopped out a housing on the wrong side of a line on the project we did together over the christmas break. Hopefully he'll have learnt a valuable lesson from that.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I mark everything I take off the lathe as to where it was originally : bowls, spindles, anything. 99% of the time it probably doesn't matter ............... but it'll matter the one time I don't do it.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Over the weekend I got the rest of the tenons finished and did a dry fit of the frame. All looks good, all the joints are tight but only need slight mallet persuasion ,I may have one or two shoulders to slightly adjust.

next was the leg vice. First drill the chop and leg for the Benchcrafted Criss-Cross pivot pins. I don't have a long 3/8" drill so I had to go in from both sides, meaning marking up and getting it square are important.

In fact I couldn't find a 3/8" or 9.5mm drill, I do have some, just couldn't find the tin, so I used a 3/8" reamer

Then attach the top of the Benchcrafted criss-cross arms to the chop and leg and insert the steel wear plates to the bottom of the mortices where the arms rub.

Then put the frame back together and stick a packer under the chop so you can get the pivot pin in, after a bit of waggling it goes in and the packer can be removed. The chop is now supported by the criss cross and glides lovely.

Check the toe-in, the chop should engage at the top before the bottom. I measured 7mm closer at the top which is in the range Benchcraft have in their instructions.

If it wasn't then you can adjust it by packing out the steel wear plates with a bit of veneer etc. You can see them on each side here.

Next job is to push the chop up to the leg, clamp it in place and drill the hole for the vice screw making sure that the flanged nut at the back of the leg doesn't foul the left top stretcher. That will be next weekend.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

I clamped the chop to the bench and marked it up for the vice screw hole which is 35mm, making sure it the screw and associated hardware had plenty of room and didn't clash with stretchers etc. I then took the chop off and drilled the hole in the pillar drill.

I then put the chop back on the frame and transferred the hole to the leg and then dismantled the frame so the leg could go in the pillar drill.

Next job was to position the screw in the chop and leg and mount the hardware making sure the screw, which is 28mm diameter, is central in the 35mm hole. To do that I found a hose adapter that was 28mm inside and 35mm outside diameter and cut a length off it. Here it is before putting the screw in the vice chop.

To make sure it was level I put another piece of the hose under the back of the screw as it comes out of the leg.

The marked off the holes with a transfer punch

I drilled the holes on the pillar drill and tapped them 6mm. The screws are 40mm long but if tapping them doesn't work I will bolt it through the chop and countersink the nuts.

After remounting the chop and fixing the front bracket to the chop, I moved the bit of hose adaptore to the back of the screw to keep the screw central in the hole in the back of the leg.

Then used a transfer punch to mark out the holes as before, then dismantled the frame and drilled and tapped the holes.

While I had the frame apart I drilled all the holes for the bolts to hold the front and back stretchers and pilot holes for the pegs in the tenons, and the holes in the two top stretchers for the big screws that hold the top down then sanded it all down, Then it was time for the youngest daughter's 10th birthday party so had to stop.

Next question is hold down and dog holes, 19mm - 3/4" or more modern 20" or both? I have both types.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I managed to get a bit of quality workshop time in over the weekend, first I glued up the end frames and left them overnight.

Then I drilled and pegged the tenons with walnut dowels, while the glue was going off I set about the long stretchers with a 25mm forstner bit for the barrel nuts. I had already drilled the bolt holes in the legs so just a matter of drilling through these holes into the stretchers with a long 12mm auger I have, then taking them up to the required 13mm for the 1/2" bolts. The barrel nuts are 1" diameter so had to pass the 25mm forstner bit through a few time to create a bit of clearance. Placement of the barrel nuts was helped by putting the bolts into the end of the stretchers and marking off the line of the bolt on the stretcher. This worked out well and all the barrel nuts and bolts lined up first time. The only problem I had was one thread was damaged and didn't engage nicely in the barrel nut. It was has a 1/2" 13 tpi thread, fortunately I have the tap and die so run these through both barrel and bolt and all was well.

I cut off the walnut pegs with my nice little japanese flexible flush cut saw

sanded it all down, I had already sanded all the inside faces before glue up, much easier, and ended up with a complete bench base, well nearly. I have the bracing for the under-shelf and the slider for the deadman to add.

I'm quite happy with it so far, the top shoulder of the top right tenon could have been a bit tighter, but as this was my first proper go at mortice and tenon joinery I think its acceptable, besides it will be hidden under the top I think I did one test mortice and tenon when I got the morticer 17 years ago, and have only used it once since, and that was to cut some mortices for a neighbour, he finished the mortices and cut the tenons himself. However I can see me using it more now, I have a few projects coming up.

So on to the bench tops. I marked up the mortices and cut them out on the morticer, I had to remove the clamp as they were so big. Very heavy and difficult to manoeuvre but I just about managed it with a couple of stands at their full extent and with a couple of bits of 3 x 2 on top.

I've adjusted the tenons on one bench top and it fits nicely, the second top is nearly there, probably another half an hour and both tops will be fitted, so far the joints are nice and tight. After that I need to plane down the faces slightly to remove circular saw marks and to flush them with the legs, only a couple of millimetres to remove and adjust the gap between them to be even, again, I'm expecting a couple of millimetres. I will then trim about 80mm from both ends, while the top are off being cut to length and to mill the slot for the deadman on the front bench top, I'll fit the deadman runner and the ledges for the shelf and give the base a coat of hard wax oil.

It will be next weekend before I get to do that.

Cheers
Andy

 

[MikeG.]

Those tenons don't look very long, Andy. What will hold the joint together?

 

[Farmer Giles]

Hi Mike

There are 4 big screws that go through the top stretchers and combined with gravity hold the top down. I know quite a few Roubo benches have through tenons, often quite intricate but as this is a softwood bench and I may want to take it apart to move it I went the for this Benchcrafted design option. I put the first half of the top on the tenons yesterday and everything is absolutely solid, no movement whatsoever even without screws. I tried to take the top of and ended up lifting the whole bench at first. I few taps with a mallet took it off but I'm well impressed considering they are only 25mm long tenons. The screws are Spax Lag Screws 5 inch x 3/8 inch with Torx50 head.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

I'm now thinking about how to shape the vice chop. It's a lamination of walnut and douglas fir over 75mm thick. I'm not going to do anything wacky with the shape, a pretty standard flat topped "keyhole" shape like the benchcrafted bench below.

My thoughts are to make a template out of MDF, screw it to the inside face of the chop after cutting most of the waste away on the bandsaw. Then use a bearing guided template trimmer in the router table. The first cut will use the template, subsequent cuts will use the work piece that has already been trimmed.

I don't have a 3"+ router bit so it will be at least 2 passes, probably more. I believe I have a bearing guided 1/2" shank cutter. Not sure it will stick out of the table enough so may need another cutter with a bearing on t'other end and flip the work over. Pity I'm not near the workshop until Friday. Wealden do sell a 75mm 1/2" shank bearing guided trimmer but it's out of stock and a bit steep for one job.

Cheers
Andy

 

[AndyT]

If you are building this because you want to get into hand tool work, those curves could provide the perfect excuse to buy a high quality rasp eg by Liogier.
Otherwise, a largish incannel gouge, some coarse sandpaper and an offcut of plastic waste pipe should see you through.

PS Levels of bench and budget envy are rising!

 

[Farmer Giles]

Interesting idea Andy, yes I do want to get into more hand tool work so this fits and I would rather spend cash on tools I would use more often than a one off router bit. I wouldn't know what "cut" to get on a rasp though, any tips?

In terms of budget I'm probably about 3 years from retirement so I'm trying to get my workshop stocked now as I will have a lot less once the pension kicks in.

 

[shed9]

If you are building this because you want to get into hand tool work, those curves could provide the perfect excuse to buy a high quality rasp eg by Liogier.

+1, got a few Auriou's last year and they are just lovely. I did contact Liogier before going the Auriou route but they didn't have stock or finish timeframes that worked for me. I ended up communicating with Noel (Liogier) himself - how often do you get that level of service from a world renowned tool maker.

Looking to get some more and probably will get Lioger this time around. That said I shan't be disappointed if I need to get more Auriou.

Are they that much better than the next tool down (taking the cost into the equation), probably not and you could probably achieve similar results with a machine stitched rasp but my opinion is that whilst the end result may be very similar the work itself is very different.

Bench is looking good, the build details and pics are appreciated.

 

[AndyT]

I can't comment myself - I've not yet found a justifying project! - but I suggest you search on here for those two brand names, or contact their helpful UK resellers.