Smart Meters. Anyone had one installed? Smart Thermostats?

[Cheshirechappie]

Unfortunately, I can't find the article now, but it was reported a week or two ago that some smart meters are unreliable. Apparently, they can't cope with the way LED lightbulbs use electricity; even though their consumption is lower than some other types, the meter reads as if they use the same as an incandescent bulb, and thus the consumer is charged for power they haven't actually consumed. If I remember correctly, both the power suppliers and OFCOM were criticised; the former for knowing about the problem but not addressing it, and the latter for not taking enforcement action.

My opinion of smart meters is that they're an unnecessary complication - and the more complex you make something, the more scope for unreliability (which always seems to be in the supplier's favour - funny that, isn't it?). I've declined to have one fitted, and will continue to do so as long as I can. If that means someone calling to read the present meter once a year, so be it as far as I'm concerned.

Edit to add - https://www.metering.com/news/inaccurat ... -readings/

 

[woodpig]

Health issues have also been noted.

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meter ... omplaints/

 

[transatlantic]

Health issues have also been noted.

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meter ... omplaints/

I'm just going to assume that's utter tripe.

 

[pcb1962]

Health issues have also been noted.

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meter ... omplaints/

I'm just going to assume that's utter tripe.

Tripe is far too polite a word for it.
Look at all the ailments that you can blame on your smart meter:

Sleep problems (insomnia, difficulty falling asleep, night waking, nightmares)
Stress, agitation, anxiety, irritability
Headaches, sharp pain or pressure in the head
Ringing in the ears, ear pain, high pitched ringing
Concentration, memory or learning problems
Fatigue, muscle or physical weakness
Disorientation, dizziness, or balance problems
Eye problems, including eye pain, pressure in the eyes,
Cardiac symptoms, heart palpitations, heart arrhythmias, chest pain
Leg cramps, or neuropathy
Arthritis, body pain, sharp, stabbing pains
Nausea, flu-like symptoms
Sinus problems, nose bleeds
Respiratory problems, cough, asthma
Skin rashes, facial flushing
Urinary problems
Endocrine disorders, thyroid problems, diabetes
High blood pressure
Changes in menstrual cycle
Hyperactivity or changes in children’s behavior
Seizures
Recurrence of cancer

 

[woodpig]

Health issues have also been noted.

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/smart-meter ... omplaints/

I'm just going to assume that's utter tripe.

http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/health/leukaemia.asp

 

[woodpig]

Tripe is far too polite a word for it.
Look at all the ailments that you can blame on your smart meter:

Sleep problems (insomnia, difficulty falling asleep, night waking, nightmares)
Stress, agitation, anxiety, irritability
Headaches, sharp pain or pressure in the head
Ringing in the ears, ear pain, high pitched ringing
Concentration, memory or learning problems
Fatigue, muscle or physical weakness
Disorientation, dizziness, or balance problems
Eye problems, including eye pain, pressure in the eyes,
Cardiac symptoms, heart palpitations, heart arrhythmias, chest pain
Leg cramps, or neuropathy
Arthritis, body pain, sharp, stabbing pains
Nausea, flu-like symptoms
Sinus problems, nose bleeds
Respiratory problems, cough, asthma
Skin rashes, facial flushing
Urinary problems
Endocrine disorders, thyroid problems, diabetes
High blood pressure
Changes in menstrual cycle
Hyperactivity or changes in children’s behavior
Seizures
Recurrence of cancer

http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/health/sensitivity.asp

 

[pcb1962]

Tripe is far too polite a word for it.
Look at all the ailments that you can blame on your smart meter:

...

http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/health/sensitivity.asp

About Powerwatch
Alasdair Philips is qualified in both Electrical and Electronic Engineering and in Agricultural Engineering. He has equity interests in two small companies (EMFields and Sensory Perspective Ltd)
.
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At EMFields we offer a range of products designed to help people recognise, detect, and protect themselves against electromagnetic pollution from a wide variety of sources.
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The PF5 Pocket Power Frequencies Meter (ELF & VLF) £150
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The deTekta meter (£135) measures the amount of Dirty Electricity (DE) that is on your house wiring
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The Acoustimeter is our most versatile microwave detector. £305
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etc

The PowerWatch site is setup to scare stupid and gullible people into buying his very expensive and utterly useless meters and detectors.
It's a complete and utter scam.

 

[Beau]

If you just want to monitor what you are using there devices like this available http://www.theowl.com/

I can see the potential for smart meters. As things stand the grid has to cope with large fluctuation of energy use. A smart supply could turn on devices like washing machines and tumble driers at times when power is surplus helping to smooth the lumps and pumps of energy production. No idea if the current meters can potentially do this though. They tried to fit one next door but due to such poor mobile reception they had a regular meter fitted.

 

[MikeH]

As I understand it there are two types of smart meters, SMETSi1 and SMETSi2 (It's not SMETSi but I can't remember the right name). The version 2 will attach to the network being rolled out and so should be compatible between suppliers. The version 1 is an interim to allow early adoption before the UK wide comms infrastructure was ready and is largely proprietary to the energy supplier and uses their network to send readings etc. So if you get a version 2 you should be fine, if you get a version 1 then switching suppliers probably means a change of meters.

The meters use different methods of communicating depending on if you are in the North or South. Neither method is via your home WIFI as I understand it.

You can find out more here:
https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/

DCC is the company delivering the infrastructure for smart meters.

 

[woodpig]

The PowerWatch site is setup to scare stupid and gullible people into buying his very expensive and utterly useless meters and detectors.
It's a complete and utter scam.

What about the World Health Organisation report on EMF and cancer:

https://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monograp ... mono80.pdf

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You could always check your electricity consumption and cost using the unit price, a clock, the wattage and your brain.

 

[finneyb]

You could always check your electricity consumption and cost using the unit price, a clock, the wattage and your brain.

WHAT !!! DIY??

Brian

 

[transatlantic]

You could always check your electricity consumption and cost using the unit price, a clock, the wattage and your brain.

heh

That is what I used to do, but then I got one of these which I find very useful. I'm now constantly keeping an eye on my electricity consumption to make sure its as I think it is. Sure the savings are very minimal, but I like doing it. I find it interesting... I still haven't accounted for ~800w (over 24hrs) that is being used somewhere, but I'll track it down! Yes - bit of a sad-o!

I also have one of the plugin meters that you plug your devices into directly, so you can get the power rating of just one thing over a period of time. Again, very useful.

But going back to your original statement, if there is one thing I have learnt it's that most devices don't draw as much as they specify they do, it's often quite a bit lower. And that also, the idle power of some devices is pretty awful! .. which I would have expected 10 years ago, not now!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They always used to moan about TVs being left on standby. I was forty seven at the time and I worked out that at the stated standby wattage it would have cost me nearly £1.50 if I left it on standby perpetually until I was one hundred.
And if I drove past my County Council offices at four in the morning, the hypocrites would still have about 100,000w of lights on. :lol:

 

[sunnybob]

"The best system out there is the honeywell evohome which controls each radiator individually by motorised TRVs instead of just heating the whole house when the boiler comes on".

For most people, this an absolute nonsense. The only way this will work is if every door in the house is closed all the time. I would be astounded if any of you keep EVERY door closed ALL the time. only opening it for passing through and then closing it again.1 bedroom door left open and its suddenly the hottest room in the house.
I cant imagine how long it would take to recoup the cost of those motorised valves and wiring.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I can see the benefits of far more sophisticated controls managed probably through wi-fi. But I suspect that unless the entire system is being replaced (radiators, boiler etc) it would be completely uneconomic to install.

With 2 people most of the time in a four bedroom house the ability to control unused rooms without resorting to wandering around the house moving thermostatic valves on individual radiators is attractive. A controller that automatically responds to external temperature, wind speed, rainfall, cloud and sun, weather forecasts, room usage etc would be neat.

But the power companies are not introducing smart meters for the consumers benefit - whatever the marketeers might assert. I suspect the real reasons are:

- reduce their costs of meter reading
- enable remote disconnection in cases of payment default
- build the infrastructure to enable flexible pricing by time segment, necessary as capacity is under severe strain.

 

[--Tom--]

Have both, think they're great. Smart meter means accurate bills, for first few months could work out what was causing the usage spikes, but haven't needed to do that for a while.

Nest thermostat has dropped our heating bill as other half is good at overriding the schedule if we are out for the evening. It's also made it easier to adjust the temp so if it's a cold day can turn on the heating half an hour before we get back so get home to a warm house.

 

[timbo614]

As far as I can see so far smart meters are not much better than the older stand alone energy usage monitors. I want a smart meter that can tell me when it is cheapest to run my washing machine, dishwasher, have a shower heat the water etc.

Better than that I want it to actually turn on the water heater / machines for the cheapest available hours!

Then I would call it smart. Compatibility with everything isn't really needed. The meter should send a text to my washing machine app that 'leccy is now "x" price". My washing machine compares the prices over the last few days/weeks/hours and decides whether to wait (gambling for a better price) or turn on.

Well That' what I would call "Smart"...

 

[Bm101]

As I understand it there are two types of smart meters, SMETSi1 and SMETSi2 (It's not SMETSi but I can't remember the right name). The version 2 will attach to the network being rolled out and so should be compatible between suppliers. The version 1 is an interim to allow early adoption before the UK wide comms infrastructure was ready and is largely proprietary to the energy supplier and uses their network to send readings etc. So if you get a version 2 you should be fine, if you get a version 1 then switching suppliers probably means a change of meters.

Thanks Mike that makes it a bit clearer.

Personally, I think I'm going to hang on with the smart meter, the current benefits don't seem to outweigh the possible disadvantages of what seems to be a fairly new technology in the early stages of implementation.

Still looking at the smart thermostats. Lots of variables on price, house sizes and suitability etc. I already have dials on the rads and a pretty small house. They also seem to suit people who have varied lifestyles. With a young family, we tend to be around at the general same times of day. I can't see me sitting in my van and turning on the heating for an hours time when I get home before everyone else tbh....
Might just get a cheap version with less features, a general learning program, and access by phone for when really necessary. Still looking tbh.

Looking at the Energy monitors that let you see your costs, they seem like a good visual reminder to keep your usage/costs down but I can't help thinking, once you've worked out which appliances use what they may be a little redundant unless you develop the habit of watching it in dread, eating raw food and sitting in the dark. Then I found the option of a plug in monitors that test each device. You won't get the overall picture of course but it will give you the output and running cost of each appliance when you input your tariff and they are cheap to buy.

Hmmm.... :| And buy the kids some Big Woolly Jumpers.

Cheers Folks.

 

[sunnybob]

"With 2 people most of the time in a four bedroom house the ability to control unused rooms without resorting to wandering around the house moving thermostatic valves on individual radiators is attractive. A controller that automatically responds to external temperature, wind speed, rainfall, cloud and sun, weather forecasts, room usage etc would be neat."

Thats exactly what a normal thermostatic valve has been doing for the last 30 years. It heats the room to set temp regardless of outside conditions. If it gets colder outside, the room gets colder so the stat stays open longer untill the room is at temp again.

I can see the value of remote switching the whole system on if you have the kind of lifestyle that means erratic home times, but motorised rad valves are complete marketing hype.